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Lazlo
Sep 11, 2008, 1:29 PM
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I've read plenty about haul systems and anchors...ect. I'm stoked about glacial travel. But I'm curious to read other reports on crevasse falls and how the hauling and/or ascending went.
Thanks!
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Lazlo
Sep 11, 2008, 2:48 PM
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Oh, come now. Someone?
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Lazlo
Sep 11, 2008, 3:53 PM
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This is getting grim. The only stories I've heard:
Sherpa I met in California (guided on Everest. Part of Seven Summits) knew a sherpa who fell into a crevase on the Kumbu Ice Fall. Crevase opened under him. Unroped. He died.
Joe Simpson. We all know how that turned out.
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climbingaggie03
Sep 11, 2008, 4:11 PM
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Yes people fall in crevasses, Usually they don't die. Sometimes they get banged up on the way down. If you can haul their pack out, and they can prussic out, that's usually easiest. (unless you have 3 people or more up top, then you can just haul em out with a 2:1 or 3:1) I think the hardest part of crevasse rescues is when the snow is soft, the rope sinks into the edge of the crevasse, and anchors are harder/take more time.
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Lazlo
Sep 11, 2008, 6:43 PM
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Thanks for the reply! First hand experience? Specific story?
("Mike fell in. I self arrested. He prussic-ed out. We continued")
I'd even be happy with "Naw, I'm too careful and only climb glaciated routes in late summer. I see all the crevasses. Never fallen."
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irregularpanda
Sep 11, 2008, 6:55 PM
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Lazlo wrote: I'd even be happy with "Naw, I'm too careful and only climb glaciated routes in late summer. I see all the crevasses. Never fallen."
Yep. There you go.
If you want info there are several kickass books on the subject. In my opinion, the most readable, and most pragmatic book on the subject is this one
http://www.amazon.com/...Rescue/dp/1893682064
The reason it costs that much is because its out of print, and it fucking rocks.
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Lazlo
Sep 11, 2008, 7:04 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: Lazlo wrote: I'd even be happy with "Naw, I'm too careful and only climb glaciated routes in late summer. I see all the crevasses. Never fallen." Yep. There you go. If you want info there are several kickass books on the subject. In my opinion, the most readable, and most pragmatic book on the subject is this one http://www.amazon.com/...Rescue/dp/1893682064 The reason it costs that much is because its out of print, and it fucking rocks.
I'm sure it's great... I'd be willing to pay a lot for a good book...but man!
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irregularpanda
Sep 11, 2008, 7:10 PM
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libraries and xerox machines.............
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Lazlo
Sep 11, 2008, 7:16 PM
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Libraries and Mountaineering books? Gosh.
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majid_sabet
Sep 11, 2008, 7:19 PM
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Lazlo wrote: Libraries and Mountaineering books? Gosh.
what are you trying to learn ?
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Lazlo
Sep 11, 2008, 7:25 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Lazlo wrote: Libraries and Mountaineering books? Gosh. what are you trying to learn ?
I'd say I'm good on the rope work. I've practiced and readz bunches. I'm just looking for practical scenarios/reports on crevasse rescue. How it went and such.
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majid_sabet
Sep 11, 2008, 9:04 PM
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Lazlo wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Lazlo wrote: Libraries and Mountaineering books? Gosh. what are you trying to learn ? I'd say I'm good on the rope work. I've practiced and readz bunches. I'm just looking for practical scenarios/reports on crevasse rescue. How it went and such.
ok so what do you think you should carry on your harness while traveling on ice ?
( not in your pack but on you).
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irregularpanda
Sep 11, 2008, 9:31 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: ok so what do you think you should carry on your harness while traveling on ice ? ( not in your pack but on you).
I detect a test!!!
1. A kiwi coil for the partner in front and back.
2. Snow protection for both. The leader is obviously leading, and thusly needs more gear. But god forbid the second or third find themselves without gear in a rescue. Protection could be screws, webbing, deadman, fluke, or pickets.
3. Prussics, but everybody knows how to tie and use those, it's so easy a monkey could do it.
4. Monkeys.
5. Maybe a pulley.
6. an ice ax. This is for entertainment purposes when you force the monkeys into an ice axe fight. I would prefer to put both monkeys in a jar with an axe, and shake it up, but simply tying them together by one hand will suffice, if they are both armed.
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sungam
Sep 11, 2008, 10:35 PM
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My buddy rob told me a good one.
He had just solod another desperate face in the alps and was skiing down a glacier when a snowbridge collapsed.
As it happened, he was on said snowbridge.
There was a flurry of snow pounding him all over, everything went white and then he landed, very slowly and very softly, on the bottom of the cravasse.
Or so he thought.
But when he looked down and saw that all he was standing on were his skis, and that they were bent like the stock of a child's play bow being drawn back by Mr T, he couldn't reach for his ice screws fast enough.
That's when he realised his left shoulder was dislocated.
The whole ski situation was scaring the shit out of him, he had to get his weight off of them before the broke (and they were braking).
He managed to get a screw out of his pack (much pain was involved here) and get it in. He clipped to it, and decided he was going to have to ice aid/hual his ass up the cravasse somehow- but the ice was near verticle and it wouldn't be easy.
He was just starting to experiment when he heard shouts from above - a group of climbers had seen him fall and had come to rescue him.
They lowered a rope, he clipped on, and the hualed his ass (no matter how bad it was) out of there using brute force and some prussiks.
His shoulder still bothers him today - but only on the climbs I can do and he can't 
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Lazlo
Sep 11, 2008, 10:42 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: ok so what do you think you should carry on your harness while traveling on ice ? ( not in your pack but on you).
Honestly, I bring my kitchen sink on alpine trips. I bring double my needed stove fuel. I bring winter gear in summer. I like not running out of stuffz.
AND TO Sungam:
Duuuuude! Sweet story! Thanks for sharing.
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tomtom
Sep 11, 2008, 11:53 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: ok so what do you think you should carry on your harness while traveling on ice ?
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majid_sabet
Sep 12, 2008, 12:33 AM
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Lazlo wrote: majid_sabet wrote: ok so what do you think you should carry on your harness while traveling on ice ? ( not in your pack but on you). Honestly, I bring my kitchen sink on alpine trips. I bring double my needed stove fuel. I bring winter gear in summer. I like not running out of stuffz. AND TO Sungam: Duuuuude! Sweet story! Thanks for sharing.
you know about the 250 pounder who was planning to do Denali and carried two large 6 feet tall 2x4 lumber to help him cross the crevasses in Alaska ?
no kidding, he even made it to above 17000 feet or so.
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skiclimb
Sep 12, 2008, 6:22 AM
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Unfortunately most of the books on crevasse rescue simply do not do a good job explaining what it is really like to have to do a serious rescue..
Z-pulley with incapacitated/unhelpful victim. One rescuer...
Infact if you havn't spent much time spelunking around crevasses then it's likely you have a few misconceptions even if you have spent many seasons on glaciers. many so-called experienced climbers just don't quite get it when it comes to crevasse rescue and the difficulties involved.
Most glacier travelers have spent a couple hours max learning a simple z-pulley system read about padding the lip and setting up an anchor and figure they'll be ok. Then they have stopped thinking about it years ago...
Fortunately 9 times out of ten falling into a crevasse is a minor momentary distraction to a long slog ...your foot goes through into air and you fall forward sprawled on your chest with you foot dangling in the air postholed through snow... ya roll over as you pull your leg out... yell to your buds... hey wow..yeah i'm ok.. and up and off you go..maybe you take a sec to look down a small dark hole and see nothing really..just a small dark hole..
Usually it takes some serious lapse in glacier travel technique to get a big roped fall into a crevass ..lotsa slack a steep slope..parralel travel or a combo of the above..
However not always.. there are several cases when traveling on large glaciers where whole sections of a bridge crevasse have simply dropped away...say 40' x 40' area just drops out under you and you take a BIG one with a sled smashing you into the side of the ice...
Truly unavoidable except by staying at home ...you cant see it period no matter what you might think..just crack/whoompf and your toast...
Well however your buddy got himself into the situation of being down in a crevasse tied in and incapacitated..it dosn't matter now... your his only hope and you truly have one brute of a task ahead of you..if you screw up your initial prep and get that rope buried into the lip ..well your buddy is probably gonna die...remember this point no matter how much it slows you down to keep that from happening...
First off you gotta get an anchor in...sometimes it's surprisingly easy to get an initial anchor in even in fairly soft snow...infact usually it's not hard to get an anchor that will hold you and your buddy...but one good enough to really haul on..hmm not quite so easy..
gluck...be creative use your pickets your poles your ice-axe a dead ox..whatever...
now you get down to the lip..ascedr attached to the rope and work your ass off digging the snow away around the edge where the rope is and getting something GOOD underneath it.,..
All the while your damn scared worried about your bud hoping he ain't dead or dying cause aint much you can do for him till you get him out..and thats gonna take a while under good conditions..
so you set up your z-pulley and hope your anchor is good enough that you can work at the lip..tending the rope as it tries to cut in..and maybe pulling upon the rope while you pull on the slack end ..whatever it takes...
guess what ...you might not be able to budge him even with a good anchor and z-pully... friction over an edge is just nasty..you'll see...bigwallers can attest to this...
you might have to rap in and get his pack and sled off ...you might need to haul him out tied to your waist... be prepared...
this of course is a 2 person scenario...
3 person travel is generally much safer because 2 peopel can almost always get one guy out ..as long as they don't allow that rope to cut into the lip...
Hope this opens your eyes to the seriousness of glacier travel..and the absolute imperative of good travel technique so you don't allow a big fall...
Tons of stuff not covered ..but at least you get an idea how bad it can be...
(This post was edited by skiclimb on Sep 12, 2008, 6:26 AM)
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Lazlo
Sep 12, 2008, 6:35 AM
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Sobering. Thank you. I always think in terms of the animations I see in the books. (of course I'll be smiling when I fall in the crevasse!)
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climbxclimb
Sep 12, 2008, 11:41 AM
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I fell into a crevasse while climbing in the alps a couple of years ago.
To make the story short...roped in a team of 3 I was leading on a crevasse field and while testing a snow bridge the bridge collapsed and i went down head first for about 15ft...it turned out that my 2 partners were not able to set up a pulley system....(needless to say, we did not have fun a dinner in the hut that night...), so i managed to turn myself in an upright position and I used my texas prusik to climb the rope, these days i am carrying a shunt.
The lesson I learned from this: be sure the people you climb with know how to operate in such a situation, not just you.
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chris
Sep 12, 2008, 4:35 PM
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I have a story I don't mind sharing because it proves a technique.
In the spring of 2003 I went to the Ruth Gorge with DPS, and while descending from the Mooses Tooth back to our camp, my partner and I simply followed our ski-tracks through the ice fall. DPS was in front, I was following. We had one last corner to negotiate at the bottom of the ice-fall before reaching the main glacier near the airstrip, and I pushed a little to make sure I passed the corner without pulling on DPS.
Just as I kick-turned, the floor dropped out beneath me. I yelled/screamed "CREVASSE!!!" as I dropped.
DPS says he heard, "something that made me turn around," saw our rope snaking into a hole, and took off running.
When he reached the end of the slack, he was a bit surprised to find he wasn't having to arrest anything. So he built an anchor, transferred the rope over, and self-belayed back to the hole to figure out what had happened. Maybe I had landed on a bridge?
Not even. I was hanging about 20 feet in the hole, shaking from the adrenalin rush. Scarier still was the running water from a moulin tube 10 feet below me.
So what happened? In 2002 I had learned about a technique to use stopper knots - butterflys were the general consensus - between two climbers on glacier travel. I insisted to a skeptical DPS that we use them. And one of these knots had jammed into the lip of the hole, holding all of my falling weight, saving DPS from having to arrest at all.
Pretty cool.
DPS lowered a rope to haul up my pack and skis, and I jugged out on my own with some assistance to get over the majorly overhung lip.
Its likely if that knot hadn't caught, I would have been dipped, and soaked, in the glacier stream below my feet. What was a simple exit from the crevasses would have been a serious environmental medical issue.
This technique of using stopper knots is also common practice now amongst AMGA guides.
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