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roscoclimber
Jan 21, 2003, 11:08 PM
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What is the protocol for establishing and waiting your turn to climb a wall. If the wait is a few hours, the answer is obvious; hang out at the base and simply wait. But if the wait is "a day", how do I establish and maintain my place in line? Do I have to bivy at the base? (I suspect the Yosemite rangers would not approve this at the base of the Nose) Do I leave my pig as a "place holder"? (Sounds like a good way to loose a pig and other gear?)
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iamthewallress
Jan 21, 2003, 11:59 PM
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The base of the Nose is off the ground, so it's a legit bivy. Actually, the ledge before Pine Line would be a better bivy if you're worried about leaving all of your stuff. Or, if it seems that there are people on the route, you can just leave your water and ropes to 'hold your place' and bring the rack adn bivvy stuff when you are ready to get on the route. The approach should take you about 15 minutes with loads, so it's not a big deal to go back to the car.
I would imagine that the clusterf*ck of people huddled around the base waiting for their turn thus making such measures necessary would be a deterent to gear theifs, and therefore, would probably leave all of my stuff, but then again, I'm a trusting soul...
Here's my question...What is the right spacing to politely allow someone to climb ahead of you on a popular route?
On the Prow last fall there was a party crawling up our butt at every belay, but not going fast enough to bypass the Anchorage Ledge where we intended to bivy if we were to let them pass. Our take on it was that they should have waited to start the next day instead joining us for a crowded dangle at each belay.
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passthepitonspete
Jan 22, 2003, 12:13 AM
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If you plan to climb The Nose, the best strategy [besides avoiding busy times] is to start a day early, and actually bivi on Sickle Ledge.
Get up early, and you will beat the usual people who fix from there to the ground.
This strategy worked for me, as you can read here.
There is always a right way and a wrong way to get onto a busy wall. Sometimes the Better Way is to blast and not fix.
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rollingstone
Jan 22, 2003, 12:17 AM
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I think Pete would second this also, but sometimes one must wait a while, especially if the wall will leave you one day (or part of a day) below someone who might just drop stuff on you. The lower party takes its own risk by jumping on below someone else...so beware...
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passthepitonspete
Jan 22, 2003, 12:19 AM
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Agreed.
The important thing when climbing a popular route is to remain flexible.
Flexible in turns of timing [leave yourself extra days in case you have to wait], and flexible in terms of routes. If one route is too busy, it pays to have a backup plan.
Hopefully one nearby.
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rollingstone
Jan 22, 2003, 12:28 AM
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Roscoclimber, at the very worst, you might have to buy a case of beer, sit in the Meadows, and crank some Stones or AC/DC and watch for your window of opportunity. Mellow...mellow.
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brutusofwyde
Jan 22, 2003, 1:30 AM
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Nurse Ratchet and I waited several days to get started on the Muir. Fixing, doing laundry, hauling loads up the lower pitches, the important thing was, with a party just ahead of us, to show up each day. To push the route a bit higher. One day, the Norweigens ahead of us didn't show up. At LAST! our chance to pass. Nurse Ratchet got halfway through her lead (the last pitch the party ahead had fixed) and we got hit by one of those deluge thunderstorms. Down, down.
Next day we resumed our place in line.
We used the lower 11 pitches of the Muir as our "shakedown wall" to get our systems ironed out (It was Nurse's first Grade VI)
Blast, or just keep nibbling away until the way ahead opens up. If a party doesn't show up for a day, leaving their lines fixed, you can legitimately pass.
Pete has wisdom on this. Stay flexible, have enough time for extra days waiting, and a backup plan.
Brutus
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iamthewallress
Jan 22, 2003, 2:38 AM
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Brutus,
How far ahead of you did you let the party in front of you get before you started creeping up on them? Do you have a guideline for this if you won't be able to swiftly overtake the party in front?
Melissa
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epic_ed
Jan 23, 2003, 6:01 PM
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Good question. Bump.
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rocknpowda
Jan 23, 2003, 9:16 PM
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I, Pete, am with Pete (passthepitons... that is) on this one. Have another route in mind.
Another question.
Under what circumstances, if any, is is ok to pass a slower party by jugging their fixed lines?
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copperhead
Jan 23, 2003, 10:01 PM
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Jugging other peoples' fixed lines?
Then you wouldn't be climbing the route.
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flamer
Jan 23, 2003, 11:59 PM
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I've seen how some people"FIX LINES"- I wouldn't jug anything I don't know about first hand....course that's just me...Maybe I'm a wuss!
josh
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passthepitonspete
Jan 24, 2003, 12:07 AM
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The biggest clusterf*ck you may ever encounter is trying to pass someone on a wall!
It is difficult, and requires the utmost in co-operation.
The Better Way is to get your politics worked out ahead of time. Better to do so on the ground than up the wall. It pays to be diplomatic.
This is called Big Wall Maneuvering, and is an extension of High-Altitude Maneuvering whereby you try to do the right amount of teamwork so as to be given a shot at the summit, all the while trying not to knacker yourself, and to somehow manage to be in the right place at the right time so as to get the first shot.
What you need to try to do is to make a realistic assessment of your party's speed, and the speed of the parti[es] ahead of you. How slow are they? If you give them a day or two to get ahead of you, do you think you'll catch them?
Usually, this is the smartest thing to do. Let them get a few days ahead so you won't catch them. Unfortunately, on the busy routes, this may not be possible.
Something as simple as saying this will do a world of good:
"Hey look, we're going to give yous guys enough time to get ahead of us, but if it turns out we're going substantially faster than you, would it be OK if we passed you?"
You must also be willing to extend the same courtesy to those beneath you. If you are climbing substantially slower, you really should let the party below pass you.
As a soloist, I am quite used to getting passed. You can even give your camera to the party passing you, and ask them to take your picture like I did here and here.
However, there is an even Better Way to work things out ahead of time. This could be considered anything from a peace offering to a bribe, but call it what you will.
Give some of your extra beer and water to the party ahead of you. Do so on the ground, and give them something again later as you pass them on the wall. Remember, your passing them will cost them time. On the wall, time is not measured in money - it's measured in food and water. Be sure to offer to take their pictures with their cameras as you pass!
Without doubt, the most perfect example of Big Wall Maneuvering I have ever seen was the guy I met at the base of El Cap who was running up to Zodiac with a hot pizza to give to the party ahead of him.
Man, if that doesn't help you win friends and influence people, nothing will.
Dale Carnegie ain't got nothin' on that dude.
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