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rizzuh
Sep 15, 2003, 8:16 PM
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Hey everybody,
I've been climbing long multi pitch trad for about 4 years now and would like to get up on the nose next summer. I have almost full sets of cams and nuts... but apparently need a couple $grand$ more worth of aid gear :shock: ! I've already bought jumars and aiders but that's it. So, ovals, micro nuts/ cams, portaledge, haul bags? What should I get first?
:x So much gear... so little money.
rock on
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the_pirate
Sep 15, 2003, 8:19 PM
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I think nuts are key..... big nuts.
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diesel___smoke
Sep 15, 2003, 9:41 PM
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I concede I was wrong in my original post. Forget what I said. This is my ORIGINAL post (it's quoted), I'm going to leave it here to allow everyone to see what I put, again this is wrong.
In reply to: If you've been climbing trad for 4 years you should be able to free The Nose. If the nose is your goal, modify your goal a little and make freeing it in a day your goal, not aiding it. Go light and fast, forget the hardcore aiding gear (portaledges, huge haulbags, etc.). Save the money, you've got what you need, aiders and jumars (for cleaning). This does not necessarily apply to other routes.
What made me put the above was I thought the entire route went about 5.10.
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afiveonbelay
Sep 15, 2003, 10:25 PM
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It's not so much as stuff as practicing to get the basic skills down. The first time you do an aid lead it will be such a cl****k that you want it on a one pitch crag in case you want to bail, walk out, sell your gear, buy a boat and sail to the bahamas.
Also gaining confidence in your placements. They will not be perfect. You will stand up on them, manky micronuts, groaning loweballs, creaking hooks, tipped out rotated hanging on one lobe cams, and then you will do it again and again and again...
If you don't have any DMM peenuts, get some. Plus a smattering of other small nuts. (the trango brassies are cheap). I'm liking my BD swedgies more and more. and I'd marry my hybrid Aliens if Congress hadn't made it illegal.
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shocker
Sep 15, 2003, 10:52 PM
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A number 5 Camalot. The double axle design allows for hooking on large ledges.
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on_sight_man
Sep 15, 2003, 10:55 PM
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Tape
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flamer
Sep 15, 2003, 10:59 PM
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Hold off on all the wall stuff...Haulbag, ledge, Etc. By more rock pro, do some short routes, make sure you like it. Don't end up putting a sign up on the board in camp4 that says, "haulbag and Ledge for sale, Bag only hauled 6pitch's, ledge only used one night- $200.00".
Hb Offsets(mainly the Brassies), Aliens(some offset) or just plain old small cams, hooks- because they're cheap and you better learn how to use them early.
josh
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tungsten_carbide
Sep 15, 2003, 11:31 PM
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In reply to: If you've been climbing trad for 4 years you should be able to free The Nose. If the nose is your goal, modify your goal a little and make freeing it in a day your goal, not aiding it. Go light and fast, forget the hardcore aiding gear (portaledges, huge haulbags, etc.). Save the money, you've got what you need, aiders and jumars (for cleaning). This does not necessarily apply to other routes.
I think this situation deserves a round of laughter. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Please enlighten me if I'm wrong, but to the extent of my knowledge, this has only been done once, and the general consensus was that it would be harder for guys than girls because of the roof pitch, which is a very thin finger crack going at something around 5.14... am I right? :roll:
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thinksinpictures
Sep 15, 2003, 11:48 PM
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The Nose was first free'd by Lynn Hill, and I honestly don't know if/how many times it's been done since. It goes free at 13b. Given that this is a relatively "low" grade compared to what many people climb nowadays, I'd be surprised if it hasn't been done since, but let's face it, advising someone that it's less trouble to free the Nose versus Aiding it is still a bit of a stretch.
Especially suggesting freeing it in a day given that it took Lynn Hill 23 hours and change.
BTW, if anyone has more info on who else has free'd the Nose since Lynn Hill, I'd be interested.
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rogueclimber
Sep 15, 2003, 11:53 PM
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Aliens are always nice, leaper cam hooks......but wait, won't your partner have his own rack of gear? A couple full trad racks should be perfect for selecting the proper 'nose rack'.
Go with purchasing a haul line, I like 10.5 60m, a haul bag, and I believe protraction is the best hauling device on the market. I hate my Wall Hauler!
The Nose has plenty of natural ledges, save some $$ and take a hammock in case you don't get to that ledge before you run out of steam.
It worked for the old school cats, and it has worked for me.
Oh yeah, Yates shield is a GREAT wall harrness. Hanging belays in a free climbing harness chaps yer hide! :D Cheers Gabe
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epic_ed
Sep 16, 2003, 12:02 AM
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No one has. Yuji made a strong effort a couple of years ago but I understand that the thin fingers necessary to pull the Great Roof were his greatest obstacle.
People climb the Nose in a day rather frequently, but they don't free the whole route. They free as much as possible -- much of it goes at mid 5.10's -- and then aid the rest. It works out to about an 80/20 ratio of free to aid. Even if you can free 80% of the route the "in a day" stuff is mighty ambitious and is still in the realm of the athletically gifted. Heck, IMTW (Melissa) just did the Nose with her boyfriend who is quite a strong free climber and they still took four days. Probably just because she sucks so bad, though. :shock: (joke--it's a damn joke :P )
Ed
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braon
Sep 16, 2003, 12:06 AM
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Check here for the post by passthepitonspete. He's got a great list and comments about the Nose. He's got a lot of great info on aiding walls if you check here.
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diesel___smoke
Sep 16, 2003, 12:30 AM
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Do as Ed says. I was wrong, I thought the Nose wasn't as hard as I originally thought as far as the crux sections. Still, the new style will be to do it in a day...
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flamer
Sep 16, 2003, 12:30 AM
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In reply to: If you've been climbing trad for 4 years you should be able to free The Nose. If the nose is your goal, modify your goal a little and make freeing it in a day your goal, not aiding it. Go light and fast, forget the hardcore aiding gear (portaledges, huge haulbags, etc.). Save the money, you've got what you need, aiders and jumars (for cleaning). This does not necessarily apply to other routes.
I just assumed This was a troll....
Of course anyone who pays attention would see that Diesel is going to be Pete's newest Jug monkey on Never never land....which will be his first wall.
Also they are still looking for a 3rd Bitch...I mean "partner" to do the route. So if anyone wants to claim they "climbed" an obscure El cap line with Pete I'm sure Diesel would appreciate someone to talk to at the Belays....
josh
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diesel___smoke
Sep 16, 2003, 3:03 AM
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Can't I do anything right???
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esoteric1
Sep 16, 2003, 3:30 AM
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hey, im in your neck of the woods and lookin to get into aid myself, email me and maybee some day we can go out and scare the shit out of ourselves,
email me at hailmark@aol.com
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climbsomething
Sep 16, 2003, 4:23 AM
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In reply to: The Nose was first free'd by Lynn Hill, and I honestly don't know if/how many times it's been done since. It goes free at 13b. Given that this is a relatively "low" grade compared to what many people climb nowadays, I'd be surprised if it hasn't been done since, but let's face it, advising someone that it's less trouble to free the Nose versus Aiding it is still a bit of a stretch. Especially suggesting freeing it in a day given that it took Lynn Hill 23 hours and change. BTW, if anyone has more info on who else has free'd the Nose since Lynn Hill, I'd be interested.
Lynn's 13b rating has been called a sandbag, and as such is pointed to as another reason why the climb has not been repeated by anybody else. Keep in mind Lynn's body size, style, and immense skill- it's hard to completely replicate Lynn's particular climbing prowess, and apply it to a 30+ pitch climb. I have heard whispers of 14a over 13b for the rating. Veddy, veddy few people can pull 13b on gear, even fewer can pull harder than that.
d_s, I see yet again the Aid Forum boys have schooled you. Not to rub it in further, but SHEESH, man! 5.10?! It may be trivia, but it's a very key piece of climbing trivia, one that if you don't know, will make you look like quite an ass when you open yer yap!
...OK, real question is... what the hell is my sporto ass doing in the Aid Forum? Damn, I don't like Ed2top THAT much 8)
*runs out of room*
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epic_ed
Sep 16, 2003, 4:26 AM
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Beat it! Or I'll have to chase you around with the feather duster again this weekend. :shock:
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thinksinpictures
Sep 16, 2003, 12:08 PM
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climbsomething - Thanks for the info.
diesel - Sorry if my original post sounded like I was bashing you, I somehow missed the fact that you'd already apologized and retracted you're error. Only a while after reading your post and thinking that it was so ridiculous did I recall that I made a similar mistake once, with regard to the Nose. Lucky for me it was a verbal conversation and not in any medium that is both permanent and searchable :wink:
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ecowain
Sep 17, 2003, 5:15 AM
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Registered: Mar 1, 2003
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A Gri-gri for your partner, so that it doesn't matter when they fall asleep belaying your pitch.
Also, the Gri-gri is bloody useful for cleaning pitches.
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euroford
Sep 17, 2003, 12:22 PM
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Registered: Aug 26, 2002
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just call up yates gear and let john (is that right??) rape yer VISA card. the shield harness was mentioned above, i use the big wall harness. both rock, you can't go wrong. they also make killer aiders (big wall ladders) and adjustable daisy chains. allot of poeple seam to prefer metoulis's (sp) adjustable daisy's, i use the yates.
left hand ascension (yellow, for right handed peeps), croll, gri-gri.....
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epic_ed
Sep 17, 2003, 3:45 PM
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I must re-emphasize just how much Yates gear rocks! Probably the #1 investment you should make if and when you decide the multi-day aid gig is for you, is to buy a Yates harness. The Big Wall or the Shield are both stellar.
The aid ladders are also beyond compare. A little bulkey and heavy, but unless your speed climbing and striving for the "fast and light" send, they will are clearly the best aid ladder available. Well, until Russian aiders are on the market.
Ed
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iamthewallress
Sep 17, 2003, 6:37 PM
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If you can't borrow them, you'll need to get a haul bag and a wall hauler type of item. (People here seem to prefer the Kong Block Roll? which I have never used. In my experience either the Petzl Traxion or Wall Hauler is fine, but if I had to do it over again I'd by the Traxion.)
Water, I would say is the main thing that you will need. I've been playing there fairly often lately and have seen many strong parties bail b/c they overestimated their speed and didn't have the agua to pull it off at their actual speed. The water will slow you down, but at least if you planned to go slower (which if you are new to wall, is probably going to happen whether you planned it or not) you have a better chance of seeing it through, IMO.
Offset items such as HB nuts or aliens are swell luxury items to have, but not strictly necessary if you are short on cash.
Other aid-specific gadgets like hammer, pins, head, hooks (w/ the exception of cam hooks) are not needed for the Nose.
Some other things I would NOT buy if money was tight...
* A portaledge. If you aren't going fast enough to hit the adequate natural ledges, you are probably not going fast enough to climb the route.
* A wall harness (bring a belay seat made out of a scrap of plywood or a plastic swing seat....most of the belays are nice stances or ledges anyway.)
* A fancy 4-aider system. Mostly you'll be french-freeing. Two aiders are all you want around, and the less bulky the better for this route.
* A static. I love having a static line, and I especially loved my 250 footer up there, but it would not have been strictly necessary. You can use a dynamic too. An old one that has lost some of its stretch might be nice as it will absorb less of your effort, and it's going to get beat to hell anyway.
If already you have a decent doubles rack, I'd say the main thing to worry about getting besides a haul bag is good storm gear (i.e. a Gor Tex rain suit, a seam-taped bivy sack, a tarp, and synthetic clothing). We got stuck in a storm while we were up there although it was August and extended forcast had called for 10 days of blue skies. The Nose is a hideous place to be in a bad storm as much of it flows with water and many of the bivies are pounded by water falls. A glance at old ANAMs will provide several grim tales....
Finally, as others have alluded to...the Nose is generally not a good first wall. I'm guessing that the bail rate I've seen of late has been at least 60% and not all of those people are first-timers. Better to cut your teeth on a grade 5 w/ fewer traverses, penji's, lower outs, and other assorted wall shenanigans.
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atg200
Sep 17, 2003, 7:23 PM
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hauling 4-5 days worth of crap with a dynamic line sounds pretty awful to me. go get a paper route and save up for the $120 static line at full retail - most likely less if you look elsewhere. otherwise i agree with melissa.
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