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roughster
Jan 17, 2004, 4:34 PM
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We have had sport climbing for a long time, and in essence bolt ladders I guess are the epitimy of "sport aiding".
HOWEVER, there is a new revolution on the way... R.B. Ladders :lol:
R.emovable B.olts.
How this came about. At an area I am developing routes going top down is not realistic. The top is so fractured and scary that the few times I have gone top down, I was terrified of dying as I rapped over teeting blocks the size of VW cars that shifted as I stepped on them. As an alternative I began bolting things from the ground up: Pins, RBs, Hooks, etc.. basically anything and everything to get up the route.
What I found though as the route got steeper I relied more and more on RBs. Initially I was filling the RB holes, but then as a friend started getting in to aid climbing, we started talking about leaving the holes and allowing the routes to in essence be dual purpose:
Sport Climbing AND Sport Aiding.
The holes left behind by the RBs (varying from 3/8 to 1/2 inch depending on the rock quality) once cleaned up from the dust are invisble from the ground basically, more so than hangers. It is a great way to practice AID climbing as sometimes a top step is needed, several spots I leap frogged two or three RB placements in a row, and basically about every 8-10 feet you get a bomber bolt to clip into for protection.
So heres the question, what is peoples opinion of leaving the holes unfilled and putting them into the guide with two ratings: a typical route grade and an Aid grade?
Yes I realize that RBs in mass are not available in 3/8" but they are still making 5/16" and 1/2". I could easily swiutch to just 1/2 or even 5/16s and that would solve that issue..
Anyways, curious to see what others think about this
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chossmonkey
Jan 17, 2004, 5:42 PM
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Might be good practice for bolt ladders with missing bolts. I was just wondering the other day if anyone actually still tries to use them for free climbing. They can be very useful for aid and bolting but it doesn't seem like much else. Were I live we have some type of wasp that loves to find little holes to fill with there eggs and some mud. Try finding, then using those mud filled holes free climbing. At leat people with RB's that don't do regular aid or bolt routes could finally get to use them. But then again who but aid climbers and bolters bought them anyway?
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potreroed
Jan 17, 2004, 7:00 PM
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RB's are useful for bolting very steep rock from the ground up but they are a bitch to remove, especially after they've held some weight. I've used them a few times but don't really like them. If I can't find a good hook placement I'll just drill a small hole for a hook. On the highly featured Potrero Chico limestone the holes are pretty much unnoticeable and I don't bother filling them in.
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roughster
Jan 17, 2004, 7:21 PM
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ed:
Yeah they can be tough to remove, but a lot of it has to do with the placement. If the whole is drilled with a downward slope and the R'B is not set too deep there cake. Two other things, if you don't drill the hole deep enough it makes thema SUPER bitch to remove. And the final thing is 1/2 inch ones are easy to remove pertty muc universally. The 3/8" ones are much harder.
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copperhead
Jan 17, 2004, 7:35 PM
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Those things are jive. If you want to put up a sport route, then place good bolts. If you want to go aid climbing, then drill bat-hook holes and place rivets. If you actually get people to climb the routes with RB holes, sooner or later it will be a pile of fixed trash and worn-out holes.
Oh, and sport aiding is nothing new – been around for many years. I prefer the terms “sport nailing” or “drunk hooking.”
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roughster
Jan 17, 2004, 7:39 PM
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copperhead:
Actually the routes are straight up sport routes with standard bolts, I just didn't fill the RB holes in between them that I used on lead. I agree RBs are no good for the entire "route".
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copperhead
Jan 17, 2004, 7:55 PM
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Well, in that case, maybe better to just patch the holes and call it a good sport route. I dunno, I don't like the RBs. Your one-time use for 'equipping' a route seems about the only good use.
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bigwalling
Jan 17, 2004, 8:13 PM
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We already have sport aiding. Now that people are putting in 3/8 bolts on aid pitches they are pretty safe compared to rivets that were too filled and and are rusting to nothingness. If aiding holes is the new rave. I'm sure the people who put up Ring of Fire and Highway to Hell will be the heros of it. But I'm sure some of there manufacted hole pitches are sitll pretty scary.
Rateings... I'd have to say C1 for every route. But rateing are way whacked. Maybe the best is system is "Perfectly Safe", "Break a Leg", and "Fall and You're ed!". Or Easy, Medium, Hard.
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lambone
Jan 17, 2004, 8:31 PM
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In reply to: Rateings... I'd have to say C1 for every route.
:? huh...go climb el cap dude...then spray :wink:
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bigwalling
Jan 17, 2004, 8:43 PM
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Dude, I was talking about the Sport aiding thing in the first post. The stuff on sport routes with RBs. El Cap is a different story. But I bet there are many pitches with 3/8" bolts all over them.
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