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campo
Apr 16, 2004, 3:00 AM
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I recently went to Obed in Tennessee for spring break...weather in the 80's for the first half of the trip cancelled out the rain at the end.
While I was there, I climbed Pet Semetary (5.11a **). This route climbs 30 feet of slopers, to the first anchor, which one can then clip and lower, or take a swing at the 40 foot horizontal roof overhead (Rage 5.12d***). After climbing the lower route I hit the anchors and lowered. When my partner pinkpointed it, he was stunned to notice that the anchor biners (two ovals) were worn on the rope end HALF WAY THROUGH (I was stunned that I didnt notice this minutes before). He lowered off (not having any extra biners to replace) and a few days later we both came back, redpointed the route, and replaced those biners. Now for the issue...Did I commit a faux pas by replacing these biners? (I used new BD hotwires to replace). I personally find it alarming that such a popular route would have such a shotty anchor at the top (there were also 15-20 washers on the bolts for some reason). Several other routes there seemed to have shotty anchors too (rusty, spinny, lots of fun)...
What do you all think, are some of us maybe too careless when climbing when it comes to inspecting such things?
I have pictures of the biners removed pending..
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scientiffikk
Apr 16, 2004, 3:12 AM
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Not a faux pas - good job!
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berkov
Apr 16, 2004, 3:22 AM
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I was in the TN, AL, GA area too and there was alot of nasty anchors and bolts around I didn't climb two really awsome routes because of the bolts I watched one guy climb one and when he got to a bolt halfway up he gave the nut about four turns with his fingers and another top anchor looked like a home depot special what looked to be all-thread glued in? a funky thin hook four washers and a loose nut all on well used popular climbs!
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cragmasterp
Apr 16, 2004, 3:58 AM
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Ain't climbin' in Appalaichia Great? :twisted:
I bet your brand new hot wires have already been replaced with a few steel quick links!
Rock Steady!
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jv
Apr 16, 2004, 4:16 AM
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In reply to: When my partner pinkpointed it, he was stunned to notice that the anchor biners (two ovals) were worn on the rope end HALF WAY THROUGH . . . a few days later we both came back, redpointed the route, and replaced those biners. Now for the issue...Did I commit a faux pas by replacing these biners? (I used new BD hotwires to replace).
I'm surprised that anyone is leaving aluminum carabiners on an anchor at all. I've seen links left, steel biners, shuts, and chain. When I see a carabiner on an anchor, I look around for the owner, and if he's not there it's mine. Your custom may be different.
In reply to: What do you all think, are some of us maybe too careless when climbing when it comes to inspecting such things?
JV
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overlord
Apr 16, 2004, 11:03 AM
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if you left the replacemen biners you did the right thing. even if you just removed the worn ones it would still be ok. they were a hazard.
JV: on most climbs if there are biners on an anchor, they are meant to be there to make anchoring safer and faster and are not booty. we had some serious problems here because @ssholes like you stole anchor biners from some easy short routes (i gues they couldnt climb the harder ones) so we had them replaced with biners that can be removes so easily (they look kinda binershaped fig8 with gates on only one "loop" so the anchor end is closed permanently (unless you have some good wirecutters) and you can clip the rope).
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campo
Apr 16, 2004, 12:57 PM
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JV: Never take biners off of an anchor, unless you are the owner or they are pure pile of the steamy (which these were).
And yes, I do feel that I was careless, this event was a realization (no pun intended) for me. I think, however, that others do the same thing as I. My message is this. I was careless and not observing things as close as I could have, but I think it is a emotion that flows all too freely among sport climbers (as well as other circles, I watched a fellow lower his partner off the end of a rope in the Gunks, luckily the guy was only 10 feet up, but still, they were experienced and climbing an .11c). We have this notion that the bolts are good, the anchor is solid, the rope is long enough etc.. Whether or not I am right, I just encourage a little more examination and caution! :)
But most of all....ENJOY YOURSELF AND THE ROUTE
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cfnubbler
Apr 16, 2004, 1:10 PM
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In reply to: He lowered off (not having any extra biners to replace)
Replacing the biners sounds like commendable public service to me, but it would have been smarter to rap off...anyway thanks for taking the initiative to beef up the anchor.
-Nubbler
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sarcat
Apr 16, 2004, 2:49 PM
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I carry two 3/8 quick links for just such occasions. I've taken some old crap down that looked unsafe but ALWAYS replaced it for new. Somebody has to/should do it so I see it as "my turn" since others do it for me.
Around were I climb no one leaves biners on anchors. It's all fixed so that the jvs of the world don't steal them all.
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jv
Apr 16, 2004, 4:40 PM
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In reply to: JV: on most climbs if there are biners on an anchor, they are meant to be there to make anchoring safer and faster and are not booty.
In reply to: we had some serious problems here because @ssholes like you stole anchor biners from some easy short routes
Like I said, his (and your) custom may be different. So why biners?
In reply to: so we had them replaced with biners that can be removes so easily (they look kinda binershaped fig8 with gates on only one "loop" so the anchor end is closed permanently (unless you have some good wirecutters) and you can clip the rope).
JV
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jv
Apr 16, 2004, 4:53 PM
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In reply to: JV: Never take biners off of an anchor, unless you are the owner or they are pure pile of the steamy (which these were).
If someone leaves carabiners on an anchor at Mission Gorge, Tahquitz, Josh, Tuolumne, or ORG, they're booty. Now if I climbed a few routes at your area and noticed worn biners on several anchors, I would assume that it's the custom of the crag, and I'd leave them alone. See?
The custom at ORG, or the recommended procedure anyway, is to climb up to the shuts and clip your own draws (or biners, etc.) and top rope through those instead of the permanent anchor. The rope and grit saws through metal pretty quick, and obviously it is expensive and labor intensive to replace permanent anchors every few months. The last climber up takes off the removable gear, threads the rope through the shuts and lowers, or preferably, raps off. The rap is easier on the shuts because the rope isn't weighted when pulled down, as it is when the climber is lowered.
JV
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sarcat
Apr 16, 2004, 5:01 PM
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jv makes a good point. Local customs should be followed.
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overlord
Apr 16, 2004, 5:05 PM
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i know thats not a biner. its anchor clipin point made by petzl. we had to use it becasue somebody kept stealing biners.
why use a biner??? lets see...
with biner: you reach the anchors, clip in (if its a locker, secure it) and lower off
withouth the biner: reach the anchors, tie into, untie, thread the rope through the anchors (if there are chains with a rappel ring, if not, make your own anchors), tie in and lower off.
as you can see anchors with biners preplaced are much quicker and becasue there are far less things that can go wrong, much safer. and, yes, you could use a piggy tail or something similar, but i have seen people deck from piggytails because the rope wasnt threaded through it properly. biners are by far the fastest and safest sport anchor.
and the biners that were stolen were plain steel lockers. nothing fancy. its just that someone made some effort to make the route a bit more enjoable and safe and someone else thinks its free gear. the only worse thing you could do was to steal bolts (and i have seen this happen too).
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campo
Apr 16, 2004, 7:09 PM
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AGAIN I stress my statement in the last post , which somone here has obviously missed! :roll:
Oh and JV, Fixe sells a similar item to the one that Overlord described....on their website it is listed as a carabiner...
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nealric
Apr 18, 2004, 6:17 AM
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This makes me think of another question:
Did a trad climb at the garden of the gods- well it was actually more of a free solo as there was one cam placement at 20ft and then the anchors at about 80.
This is a free standing spire (3 graces)- and there were some nasty ratty slings on piton anchors (ring pitons). Clipped to the nasty slings were two fairly new biners- I had done the route about 3 mos before and they were not there.
However, clipping the biners was probably more dangerous because of the ratty sling they were attached to. I just threaded the rings on the pitons to rap (wouldnt have even been possible to lower due to the nature of the climb). I also took the biners- seemed like they were niether useful or necessary.
Did I get a legit booty haul or commit theft?
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overlord
Apr 19, 2004, 10:40 AM
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since it was a trad climb, i dot really now. someone might consider it booty, but someone else might consider them a part of the anchor. but since the anchor was so poor as you describe, the one who left them would do a much better job if he replaced the slings. anywaym i would replace the slings and take the biners.
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