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dsafanda
Jun 10, 2002, 3:35 PM
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Has anyone cleaned or jugged using Yates adjustable daisies attached to the ascenders? Do you think this is a good idea or bad idea? If you're leading with adjustable daisies it seems like it would be nice to not have to remove them when cleaning. Thoughts?
[ This Message was edited by: dsafanda on 2002-06-10 09:25 ]
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spike
Jun 10, 2002, 7:58 PM
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The adjustable Yates daisys work great for jugging/cleaning. You can adjust them to the perfect length you need when jugging. I attach them to my Petzl ascenders with the small Black Diamond Enduro lockers.
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wigglestick
Jun 10, 2002, 8:28 PM
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I have never used the Yates Daisies but I use my metolius adj. daisies exclusively. I bring a pair of the traditional daisies on walls but they just sit in the bottom of the bag in case I need extra ones. You are of course only using a single ascender and a grigri to clean the pitch right?
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dsafanda
Jun 10, 2002, 8:33 PM
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Both of those answers are what I was hoping to hear. Thanks guys!!
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radistrad
Jun 10, 2002, 8:55 PM
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I think I just answered this on supertopos, I have used mine for this purpose.. They work great especially if the angle of the rock changes 'cause you can change the length on the fly and you dont end up short dicking on some slab. They also work great for moving your ascender over the piece to clean.
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crackaddict
Jun 10, 2002, 10:00 PM
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Just like the above said.
Yates adjustables work well. I love them and use them always.
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apollodorus
Jun 11, 2002, 6:23 AM
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Adjustable daisies allow you to crank up to your top jug easily, even on overhanging pitches. I preferred to use the Kong adjustable fifi, though, because it comes off easily and then the daisies are still at the longer length. For what it's worth, I found that two jumars on aiders and a Gri Gri on the harness was the best thing for complex, overhanging traverse cleaning. The Gri Gri acted as a backup, and could be used to lower out on long reaches. Of course, to clean one piton with a very long traverse to the next piece, I simply clipped it to myself, and knocked it loose. The 30 foot swinging fall on P27 of the Excalibur was pretty cool! Saved time, and didn't require leaving a lower out piece.
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melonhead
Jun 20, 2002, 10:59 PM
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Adjustable daisies are the best thing since sliced whit bread. I always have one on my harness. always.
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passthepitonspete
Jun 26, 2002, 2:47 AM
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Quote:
Has anyone cleaned or jugged using Yates adjustable daisies attached to the[ir] ascenders?
Ouch.
Sorry to rain on your parade, buddy, for you certainly have the right attitude.
Unfortunately, you are not doing things the better way, as your question indicates.
But you are not alone - far from it! So take heart - you ARE about halfway there.
Let's have a look at this, eh?
Firstly, throw away your Yates adjustable daisies and buy some Metolius ones. You don't have to do it now - but you will have to do it in a year or two when the steel buckles begin slipping! The Metolius adjustable daisies has a very bitchin' D-ring assembly that does not slip.
Take heed, BWTs, wannabes, and pros alike - buy Metolius adjustable aiders, not Yates.
Secondly, what [pray] do you mean when you say,
"attached to the ascenders?"
Who ever said anything about cleaning using two ascenders?
Good grief!
This type of strenous nonsense disappeared during the dark ages, which in big wall climbing was about a year or two ago, or at least until Chongo pointed me towards the better way of cleaning.
Dude, you clean an aid pitch with:
ONE ascender
One Grigri
One adjustable fifi on slippery 6mm cord
One simple overhand backup knot tied onto a designated wide gate backup locker hanging from a short sewn sling girth hitched to hang beneath your doughnut
Any other method to clean is RUBBISH!!!
The ONLY time you would use a second ascender is on a very traversing section, as Tom points out. And by "very" I mean greater than about 45 degrees.
Personally, I use a designated pre-tied hunk of webbing on my cleaning jumar, which is the same hunk of webbing I use when I convert it into the Petzl Frog jugging system, which requires nothing more than the addition of Croll ascender against your stomach as low as you can possibly rig it.
However, you could replace the pre-tied webbing on your one jug with the adjustable daisy - this would allow you to cinch up on the upper ascender after you lift it across the piece.
However, this being said, the adjustable daisy is more difficult to release than the adjustable fifi is - you can just pop the fifi out with your fingertip.
At this point in my post, there are two kinds of people reading it (the others have given up by now, and we need not be concerned with their type....)
Those who are nodding and say, "I get it," and those who don't.
It is, incidentally, my desire that you all "get it."
So think about this, those of you in the latter camp:
The reason you use a Grigri instead of the second jug is because after you lift your upper ascender across the piece, you do not have to fight your lower ascender in order to release it and put slack into the rope so you can clean the piece.
Sound familiar?
How many times have you fought that $%*#@!! lower ascender just to release it?!
Here is the way cool bit -
listen up!
You simply open the lever on the Grigri and put slack into the rope!
Hel-LOW-hoe!
No more fighting that lower jug!
Are you "getting it" yet?
Please tell me you are!
[Aside: More importantly, are you getting any? Please tell me you are!]
Those who get it have probably found the link to Yvette's website, where she describes the better way to clean using a single jug and a Gri-gri.
You can click here to check out the very bitchin' ClimbChick showing you how to clean with a jug and a Grigri, which emphatically is the better way.
I also recommend you check out Tom's comments here.
As a wall doctor, I spend a lot of time helping my patients diagnose and solve their wall problems.
It has been my observation, having spoken with dozens of struggling climbers over the past few weeks, that cleaning aid pitches is a big problem for a lot of wall climbers.
In fact, it is probably the greatest single problem people were asking me about.
A preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.
Fortunately, there is a better way.
ClimbChick has more-or-less got it right, but last week as I was sitting on the Shortest Straw, enjoying yet another steaming hot cup of joe from Dr. Piton's Shagadelic Big Wall Coffee Press, I took the time to write down a precise set of instructions concerning the better way to clean an aid pitch.
I will be making that post shortly.
Please stay tuned.
I am Dr. Piton,
and after being down off the wall for five days my fingers have finally stopped hurting!
I'm all about the better way.
[I'm all about practising my new California climber-speak, but I still spell "practise" with an "s" - no need to go overboard, eh?]
It's all good.
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punk
Jun 26, 2002, 8:40 AM
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For jugging per-se, I don’t think that adjustable daisies will make any difference,
For cleaning, the above sys. Says it all,
I definitely see the advantage of adjustable fifi…but at the end of the day its what you got use to…(there is a method to the madness…not to say that there is no room for improvement)
I have gotten use to my Yates adjust daisies and don’t find it to be a hassle …(I’m fine with 2 years life expectancy …by then who know what the new gadget to hit the market and the nylon after 2 years of constant use…may need a replacement anyway…regardless the brand)
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-06-26 01:43 ]
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justsendingits
Jun 26, 2002, 9:38 AM
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Damn,I have to leave for the big ditch sat.and have a lot to do.But these threads are very informative!!!!---And fun.PTPP,you a funny guy in addition to being a keen WALL DOCTOR!!!Ok what was this thread about?Oh ya,I like the Yates daisy's also,easy to release buckle for slack.Very beefy,and my last pair(before I gave them to one of Dr. P.s paitents,Nate)Lasted me a long time!!!-- But I did meet a guy last year(from Boulder I think,don't remember his name)who took a whipper on the P.O wall,when his extremely worn out Yates daisy broke!!!--The webbing got cut thru from the buckle,when it got shock loaded when the fixed mank he was on blew!!!The daisy was on his next piece(the one below him)Fell about 25,30 feet and landed on his partner!!! I saw the daisy a couple day's before,and they were Shite!!--I just ordered the Yates adjustable Daisy's with the Screamers.They say not to solo with them on their web site,buy don't say why.Can anybody give me beta on why I should not solo with Yates Adj.daisy's with the screamers? Oh ya,also I think the Metolius Adjustable daisy's are rated at 300 lbs.can anybody confirm this,and if so,is that kind of low? Cheers RICH
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-06-26 05:03 ]
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-06-26 07:44 ]
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tim
Jun 26, 2002, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
[Aside: More importantly, are you getting any? Please tell me you are!]
Pete, quit gloating about climbing Leaning Tower with Yvette already. Yes, you're very studly; no, that was not very subtle.
Out of curiosity, how exactly do you use the adjustable fifi when cleaning? Just for hooking the piece ala Russ Walling's "how to clean a roof with just hooks on your aiders"?
For some reason I thought that fifi hooks were just for resting on lead.
I was taught to use two ascenders to clean traverses (90 degree straight across traverses) but now that I am beginning to understand the Better Way, I wonder if it's even necessary for *that* type of clip-cleaning (eg. one ascender on one side, the other on the other, weight transfer, unclip piece, slide ascender up now-slacking rope). I need to go back up to Cathedral and climb the Mordor the Better Way so I will be listening intently for any suggestions.
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