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psych
Jun 11, 2002, 9:05 PM
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So it's come up once or twice for us now that we could rappel down from a TR station when it'll save you a hike.
Now, my buddy has his method of rappelling, which defenitely makes sense, whereas others have their own different methods.
His is to tie in like you would to climb, then clip into the opposed draws at the TR station, chuck the rope down and then basically lower yourself down using your ATC on the other part of the rope (the length on the other side of the draws from you). Seemed to work well (he made it at least!), but with thick rope it didn't look to easy to let rope out, kinda got in the way of the figure 8 there...
The other way I've seen it done was clipping the rope into the opposed TR station's draws and basically hucking both ends down, clipped to the draws around the mid point. Put both ends of the rope through the ATC and lower yourself down.
I guess the potential for flying off the end of the rope is higher with the second as it could go quicker down, but....any thoughts on which method is best? Is there a third method? etc.
I didn't try it at that point, didn't feel comfortable with it...thoughts appreciated!
Mike...
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hunter
Jun 11, 2002, 9:45 PM
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Most folks seem to prefer to rapp down on a double rope you described in your second option, not the way your buddy does it.
A couple of thoughts...
Make SURE you tie a double overhand knot in each end of the rope before you toss'em over the edge to avoid the possibility of rapping of the end of the rope.
I recomend keeping a safety strap attached from your harness to a solid anchor until you have the ATC set-up and locked into your harness. Remember to unclip it though once you are in position to rappel but before you start down.
I'm sure there are other ways as well.
Hunter
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apollodorus
Jun 11, 2002, 11:32 PM
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Lowering off (method 1) has the disadvantage of rubbing the rope over the rock. Also, if your anchors are just webbing, you don't want the rope to be rubbing on that. The usual thing is to rappel on the doubled rope (method 2), and then pull the rope down.
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smithclimber
Jun 12, 2002, 12:41 AM
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Adding to Apollodorus' comment.
In addition to the rope rubbing on the rock or potentially rubbing directly against slings, "method 1" also has the rope rubbing against the chains/rap hanger/rappel rings or whatever else is at the station. All this friction puts more wear on everything.
"Method 1" puts MUCH more wear on the anchors, your rope, and potentially the rock as well. Stick to "method 2" and remember those "stopper" knots to keep you from sailing into the void.
Also, "method 2" makes it much easier (usually) to see whether both ends make it to the ground/next rap station BEFORE you start the rappel. "Method 1" would make that considerably harder to judge.
[ This Message was edited by: smithclimber on 2002-06-11 17:44 ]
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nailzz
Jun 12, 2002, 1:30 AM
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I've a feeling you're not going to see many people voting for method 1 for the reasons already mentioned.
1)Wear on rope since it is moving through the anchors while the rope is weighted.
2)Wear on the anchors. Those rap rings have a finite amount of wear to take before they need to be replaced. The more ropes that run through them and wear away the metal, the sooner somebody has to fork over the cash to buy new rings, and take their time to set those rings so nobody gets hurt.
3)Safety. Knowing that both ends of the rope have reached the ground is crucial before pitching off of that cliff. Like 'Smith' pointed out, this is only possible via method 2.
Another side note. Whenever you are setting up your rappel, make sure of two things: a)that YOU are securely fastened to the anchor, and b)that your rope is ALWAYS securely fastened either to the anchor or yourself via a simple overhand knot on a bight clipped in to a draw on your harness. Imagine yourself hanging on an anchor and pulling up your rope for the rappel when it slips from your hand and topples down the cliff. Well, now you're kind of screwed because you're stuck there until somebody can get that rope back up to you.
Lastly, once you have your rappel all set up, pull up all the slack and 'hang' on your rappel before unclipping yourself from the anchors. This way you can insure that everything is set up correctly by knowing that you can now hang off the rope and still be secure once you unclip from the anchors. Also, it allows you one more chance to visually inspect all parts of your system to make absolute certain that everything is rigged the way it should be.
Have fun.
Edit: fixed some mistakes.
[ This Message was edited by: nailzz on 2002-06-11 18:38 ]
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psych
Jun 12, 2002, 5:41 AM
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Thanks for the posts guys!
I'm guessing that because you've got two strands of rope running through the ATC (or belay/rap device of choice) that wild uncontrolled plummets aren't going to happen unless you really loose up on the brake hand. I'll just put aside all worries about "maybe I should bring a glove...." then.
It's one of those things you can't really practice in the comfort of your local gym, where almost everything seems safe. There's still some things I must learn to wrap (rap?) my head around I guess.
Mike...
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overlord
Jun 18, 2002, 4:15 PM
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slowly and carefully and WITH backup
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danwilli
Jun 18, 2002, 5:39 PM
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You can also tie an autoblock/pursic knot when rappeling. This way if your hands slip they autoblock will sinch down on the rope preventing you from zipping all the way down.
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merewyn
Jul 1, 2002, 10:11 AM
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Definitly method two. I like to use a prussick knot underneath the ATC (where your brake hand is) which is then clipped onto your leg loop. The prussick needs to be really short, tie an overhand knot in it to shorten. The advantage of this is that it doesn't just grab the rope if you let go, but the prussick actually locks off the ATC. This means less load on the prussick (they aren't super strong) and you are making better use of your gear. Also I find with the prussick about the ATC, the hand pulling it down can get pretty hot. This doesn't happen so much if it is below.
Does this make sense? Email me if you need a diagram!
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