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tradrenn
Feb 20, 2005, 5:58 AM
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I have notice that BD oval biner with old type of gate is <->18KN strong but wiregate is <->23KN. Is that also for other biners ? Did you ever had a problem with wire gate biners? What makes them stronger ?
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slavetogravity
Feb 20, 2005, 7:29 AM
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In reply to: I have notice that BD oval biner with old type of gate is <->18KN strong but wiregate is <->23KN. Is that also for other biners ? Did you ever had a problem with wire gate biners? What makes them stronger ?
I can garentee you that you could climb a thousand years on wire gate biners and in all that time if you where to fall on that biner in such a way as to cause it to fail, the extra 5Kn of strength you would have lost by using wire gates would not be the determining factor that caused the biner to fail. The advantage of solid gated biners are they are cheap. In the real world, the advantages of wire gated biners are that they are lighter, and more importantly, when you’re all gripped on lead, struggling with all your might to clip your rope to your biner the extra millimetres of gate your going to gain with your wire gated biner could mean the difference between you clipping through the gate or falling. Unless your only buying a key chain biners to go climb with, I wouldn’t get too hung up on Kn ratting.
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climbinginchico
Feb 20, 2005, 7:33 AM
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My rack is composed entirely of wire gates. I prefer the clipping and gate action, lighter weight, and resistance to gate lash. The only thing that isn't wiregate are my lockers (Petzl Attache and BD Positron screwgate).
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jimdavis
Feb 20, 2005, 7:44 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I have notice that BD oval biner with old type of gate is <->18KN strong but wiregate is <->23KN. Is that also for other biners ? Did you ever had a problem with wire gate biners? What makes them stronger ? I can garentee you that you could climb a thousand years on wire gate biners and in all that time if you where to fall on that biner in such a way as to cause it to fail, the extra 5Kn of strength you would have lost by using wire gates would not be the determining factor that caused the biner to fail.
Um, in the example he stated, the wiregate was stronger... not weaker, and they usually aren't.
It's a stainless steel wire gate, rather than an aluminium pin in a standard gate. That's still where it'll fail in a pull test.
To the OP, the reason the OvalWire is stronger than the traditional Oval is because of the design of the spine. The OvalWire is NOT a true oval shape, so it shifts the load closer to the spine (where the strength is). The Oval sits the load further away from the spine, making it weaker. This is why D biners are always stronger than Ovals of equal weight (assuming gate, alloy is the same)
Wire gates are the way to go if you have the money. Do a search on wiregates and you'll see all the benifits they offer.
Cheers,
Jim
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mingleefu
Feb 20, 2005, 7:45 AM
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heehee.. I think I'm going to just chase you around rc.com for the night.
I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere (which tells you how reliable this is) that Wiregates are stronger because they can deform slightly under heavy loads and still retain much of their strength. Solid gates would simply snap apart.
Black Diamond's Oval carabiner is rated to 18kN, and their oval wiregate to 23kN. So it would seem that the wiregates are stronger.
However, If you look at the Omegalite Five-O line of biners, you'll find that Solid gates, bent gates, and wire gates all are rated to 25kN along their major axis. As well, the Trango Classic solidgate and wiregate biners are both rated to 24kN along their major axis.
Perhaps it might be a rather spurious correlation to say that wiregate biners are stronger than solid gates. It may be, in fact, that more research is done to investigate the strongest geometry of a biner and then those findings are put towards the design of a wiregate, leaving solidgates behind. Notice that the design of BD's oval and oval wiregate are different.
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slavetogravity
Feb 20, 2005, 7:50 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I have notice that BD oval biner with old type of gate is <->18KN strong but wiregate is <->23KN. Is that also for other biners ? Did you ever had a problem with wire gate biners? What makes them stronger ? I can garentee you that you could climb a thousand years on wire gate biners and in all that time if you where to fall on that biner in such a way as to cause it to fail, the extra 5Kn of strength you would have lost by using wire gates would not be the determining factor that caused the biner to fail. Um, in the example he stated, the wiregate was stronger... not weaker, and they usually aren't. Jim
My bad, I must have suffered a brain fart and was thinking of the weaker "lateral load" strength wire gate biners have. As for them having a stronger vertical load. I recall it having something to do with the malleability of the wire gate. Where the wire has give, and will bend/stretch. The sold gate would just snap.
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jimdavis
Feb 20, 2005, 7:55 AM
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In reply to: heehee.. I think I'm going to just chase you around rc.com for the night. I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere (which tells you how reliable this is) that Wiregates are stronger because they can deform slightly under heavy loads and still retain much of their strength. Solid gates would simply snap apart. Black Diamond's Oval carabiner is rated to 18kN, and their oval wiregate to 23kN. So it would seem that the wiregates are stronger. However, If you look at the Omegalite Five-O line of biners, you'll find that Solid gates, bent gates, and wire gates all are rated to 25kN along their major axis. As well, the Trango Classic solidgate and wiregate biners are both rated to 24kN along their major axis. Perhaps it might be a rather spurious correlation to say that wiregate biners are stronger than solid gates. It may be, in fact, that more research is done to investigate the strongest geometry of a biner and then those findings are put towards the design of a wiregate, leaving solidgates behind. Notice that the design of BD's oval and oval wiregate are different.
Lot-a fan-cee words there.
One this is for sure: WireGates are not weaker than solid gates.
Jim
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tradrenn
Feb 20, 2005, 8:15 AM
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In reply to: Notice that the design of BD's oval and oval wiregate are different.
I just checked it and yes they are totaly dif. Good point man.
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adamwvt
Feb 20, 2005, 12:16 PM
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The number one reason to rack with wire gate caribiners is to reduce the risk of the rope coming uncliped due to gate flutter. The wire gate has less mass, therefore it won't snap open in a fall due to its inertia. to prove this take a biner, hold the end at the hinge side, and slap it spineways along your palm. You will hear a snap, which is the gate opening some. Now do it with a wire gate and you won't notice it nearly as much.
The main reason I use them is they make my rack so much lighter.
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jackhammer
Feb 20, 2005, 3:19 PM
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I prefer the wiregate for any kind of contact with the rope, as I usually like a real snappy action when I'm f**kin' around with the rope. When it comes to anything else though, I just feel more comfortable with the old standard.
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