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cjstudent
Feb 19, 2005, 2:09 AM
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I know that this topic of hard vs. soft shell has been brought up alot. I've read alot of the posts on here about what pants to buy and yada yada but didn't really get the feedback i wanted. I'm about to exercise some of my pro-deal rights and purchase some pants for ice and alpine. I'm wanting some feedback from ice and alpine climbers who have more experience than me, which isn't much more than a few thin ice climbs that we've had in this sucky winter here in NC.
I'm just wondering about pants, not a jacket. Are hardshell pants more suited for alpine than soft shell? I've got some lofty goals to maybe get to NH before winter is over and some summer mountaineering in the Sierras. I am thinking for pure ice climbing, either would be fine...and probably the soft shell would perform better here with its added breathability. But for alpine and more snow intensive stuff, would the soft shell be enough. In NC we don't have tooooo much snow to deal with so I don't know really what I would need, but do know that my fleece pants and cheap crap columbia hard pants aren't going to cut it. I'm not really looking for a "yea this brand rocks" kind of deal. Since my pro-deal company produces recommended soft and hard shell products.
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jimdavis
Feb 19, 2005, 2:30 AM
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I climbed rock with my softshell pants (scholler) and loved them. I climbed 1 day of ice with them, and took em back.
My legs don't tend to sweat too much anyway, so a Hardshell isn't that big of a set-back for me.
Slogging through snow, and climbing through a drip, will often get soft-shells wet, and in an Alpine env...I wouldn't mess around with that.
Get a good studry hardshell pant with full zips and a good range of motion (with a harness on) and I think you'll be very happy.
Cheers,
Jim
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couchwarrior
Feb 19, 2005, 2:59 AM
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Hard shells are rain gear, nothing more. A sturdy pair of those would be great if you climb through regular downpours. If you are mostly alpine and ice, you're way better off with softshell - I climb ice and rock in mine, posthole in snow, been to 18,000 feet, spent a month peakbagging in Bolivia wearing nothing but, etc. No damage but a few holes from crampon points. If anything, mate them with an El Cheapo pair of rain pants (ala Campmor) for those occasions when you can't get out of the rain.
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cgailey
Feb 19, 2005, 3:46 AM
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In reply to: I climbed rock with my softshell pants (scholler) and loved them. I climbed 1 day of ice with them, and took em back. My legs don't tend to sweat too much anyway, so a Hardshell isn't that big of a set-back for me. Slogging through snow, and climbing through a drip, will often get soft-shells wet, and in an Alpine env...I wouldn't mess around with that. Get a good studry hardshell pant with full zips and a good range of motion (with a harness on) and I think you'll be very happy. Cheers, Jim
I agree 100%...
Softshells are great, and they work under most conditions, but if you can only afford one set of pants, don't bother getting anything other than a good hardshell. I recommend a full bib or a low bib rather than a pant, especially for alpine climbing and anything with a harness.
I'm assuming you are looking at Arcteryx (dead chicken wear) if you are prodealing, so I can recommend the theta LT or SK pant pants (low bibs) as well as the Alpha SV bib (full bib). Both the Alpha and the Theta LT are available with a thru the crotch zip, but if your baselayer doesn't have one, don't bother getting it. The SK is a little beefier than the LT, but only weighs about 30g more.
Enjoy!
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paulraphael
Feb 19, 2005, 6:17 AM
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I agree with the above, that if you had to have one pair it should be hardshell. I allso second the arcteryx recommendation. I have the beta ar pants, and am happy with them. They are cut like climbing pants and fit great. They have the flapless zippers, which are important for keeping weight and bulk and stiffness to a minimum, and they have a feature that few people mention but that i won't live without: a fly. Not sure what people are smoking when they design climbing pants without a fly, but the world is full of them. One other advantage: the hardshells are easier to repair if stab yourself with a crampon. Lots of ways to do it; seam grip is quick and permanent.
All this being said, I wear my softshell pants more and more often. I got the Mammut Courmayeur pants, which are more breatheable, more mobile, and better in mild condtitions where the hardshells can be too warm (even with the zips ventilated). It's true that schoeller will take a long time to dry if it gets soaked, but I rarely get soaked when I climb. If I'm wearing the softshells and there's deep snow, I wear gaitors.
So the softshells have become my first choice, but there are conditions where I wouldn't wear them (very cold or very wet), while the hardshells, while not always ideal, can work in any conditions except full on summer heat.
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lambone
Feb 19, 2005, 6:41 AM
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soft
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cjstudent
Feb 20, 2005, 3:33 AM
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Glad i didn't get conflicting answers. Haha
edited, taking someones advice.
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slobmonster
Feb 20, 2005, 3:44 AM
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soft on the outside,
HARD on the inside.
(that's a joke).
you may consult This Page for my opinion, and those of others.
During four winters guiding full time in North Conway, I wore my hardshell pants once or twice. As you already have your "crappy" Columbia pants, you really have no dire need to replace these. Get your groove on with some nice, svelt, *quiet* pants and you will be quite happy in the long run.
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slobmonster
Feb 20, 2005, 3:47 AM
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Oh, and a little word of advice: keep your "pro-deal" status to yourself. Companies don't really like it when they hear about it publicly... like here.
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sharpie
Feb 20, 2005, 4:34 AM
Post #10 of 17
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I climb ice and alpine in Mammut Castor pants, they are softshell and waterproof!
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mack_north
Feb 20, 2005, 4:51 AM
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I like the Castors but they don't leave me much room in the nuggetpouch. Otherwise, the freedom of movement is fantastic - I can jump around like a weasel on a hotplate.
I'd have more to say but my neighbor is screaming at his wife again. He thinks I won't call the cops on him because he's a midget! But he's got another thing coming. They'll scream at each other all night, throw pots and pans, then show up at my front door with their farty dog and a pan of pasta fagioli in the morning, like that's an apology.
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bandycoot
Feb 20, 2005, 5:11 AM
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I'm so glad I don't live in Fargo. :lol:
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cjstudent
Feb 20, 2005, 6:07 PM
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Registered: Oct 21, 2003
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One pant that i've found on sale a lot of places, The North Face Caber. I was almost thinking of throwing my deals aside, and checking out the Caber pant. In theory the pant sounds like a good idea, but I've only found one person who said they like it. And I'm on the train with everyone else thinking TNF company is lacking on product innovation and durability.
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punk
Feb 20, 2005, 6:42 PM
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Get them both and support the industry or get a good wool pants at he army navy store with coated nylon and support yourself.
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watchme
Feb 20, 2005, 7:07 PM
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It depends. Out here in the west, it is dry enough that I never wear hardshell anything. Out east, I could see how a hard shell might make sense.
Personally, I sweat so much that I swear by soft shell. Do I get really wet climbing a dripping ice climb; sure I do. But I find that my soft shell stuff dries very quickly.
In the sierras, soft shell. The only way to go.
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jimdavis
Feb 21, 2005, 2:05 AM
Post #16 of 17
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In reply to: Oh, and a little word of advice: keep your "pro-deal" status to yourself. Companies don't really like it when they hear about it publicly... like here.
I, and my company lost status on a brand because someone talked about it at a local gear shop... Keep that shit on the DL.
Jim
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cryder
Feb 21, 2005, 6:52 PM
Post #17 of 17
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Registered: Oct 14, 2003
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In reply to: One pant that i've found on sale a lot of places, The North Face Caber. I was almost thinking of throwing my deals aside, and checking out the Caber pant. In theory the pant sounds like a good idea, but I've only found one person who said they like it. And I'm on the train with everyone else thinking TNF company is lacking on product innovation and durability.
I use the Caber on alpine routes, ice, etc. Great hybrid soft / hard shell pant and a good value when on sale.
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