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armstrong
Feb 23, 2005, 10:16 PM
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Just wondering on what exaclty defines a "big wall". Is it the height of the wall or how many pitches etc.?
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celticelement
Feb 23, 2005, 10:28 PM
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Why define it?
If you define it does that mean you can go climb the shortest easiest wall that fits the 'big wall' category then call yourself a big wall wizard?
When dose a hill become a mountain? When does a mountain become a peak?
When does a bunch of trees become a forest?
Do we have to label everything or can we let what is, be what it is, without our stupid little definitions?
When does a post full of questions become an obnoxious pseudo-rant?
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pt
Feb 23, 2005, 10:33 PM
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It used to be that a "Big Wall" route required spending at least one night on the wall (grade V) and required substantial amounts of aid climbing. Things are a little more vague these days because many "walls" are being free climbed or being done in very fast times. In general though, any route in an old school area such as Yosemite or Zion that is grade V or VI is a "wall". Grade IV routes that require aid climbing are generally considered good introductory wall routes, but don't quite make the cut as a true big wall (Spaceshot or Prodigal Sun for example). Something like Epinephrine in RR that is very long but relatively easy at 5.9, would generally not be considered a wall. None of this is written in stone anywhere, just my impressions.
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dingus
Feb 23, 2005, 10:34 PM
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A big wall requires more than one day for the typical party to climb it (Grade V and up) and usually aid style rock climbing techniques (hauling, jugging, etc.) are employed. Big walls can obviously go free and in much less than a day though.
DMT
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dingus
Feb 23, 2005, 10:36 PM
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In reply to: Why define it? If you define it does that mean you can go climb the shortest easiest wall that fits the 'big wall' category then call yourself a big wall wizard? When dose a hill become a mountain? When does a mountain become a peak? When does a bunch of trees become a forest? Do we have to label everything or can we let what is, be what it is, without our stupid little definitions? When does a post full of questions become an obnoxious pseudo-rant?
He asked for the definition of a big wall, not a big asshole!
Aaaahahahaha! Gottchya. Chill bro, its all good.
DMT
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celticelement
Feb 23, 2005, 11:09 PM
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PT
In reply to: It used to be...vague...In general though...generally considered...true big wall...generally not be considered... None of this is written in stone anywhere, just my impressions.
dingus
In reply to: typical...usually...
I'm chill. 8^)
One thing I hate about the internet is you can't communicate voice inflections.
I am not trying to be a retard (succeeding beautifully, yes?). I am just trying to get someone to think about why they need a definition.
I think there is a lot about life that does not need definitions. In fact I think there are things that the more you try to define them the more you lose the conception of what their true nature is.
If you do ever get a firm definition of a 'big wall' what will you have gained?
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dingus
Feb 23, 2005, 11:23 PM
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In reply to: If you do ever get a firm definition of a 'big wall' what will you have gained?
On plenty of days I would have given your answer.
What does one gain? Well, in a beginners forum perhaps a vague notion of what others are talking about when they say 'wall climbing' or 'let's go do a big wall.'
An overlooked aspect is the person giving the answer...
did you ever notice it isn't the uber experienced climbers usually giving elaborate answers? It's the middle folks, those who are coming to or well into their journeymen years.
You don't know what you know about a subject till you try to teach it to someone else. The urge to define can often be found in the impluse of self discovery.
At supertopo for example, are several name brand wall climbers, and I'm talking folks who do serious first ascents. I have yet to see a single one of them respond to a 'how to' or a 'define this' thread. It's always the middleware folks, or ptpp (and even he is quite chilled out there due to the level of talent).
They're not trying to show off in my opinion. Its that often in the middle years teaching the next round is sort of the next skill set to be tackled?
So, noobs ask questions, journeymen answer them and the old dogs scowl and go about their business.
I'm glad you took no offence at my response, I meant none.
Cheers!
DMT
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armstrong
Feb 23, 2005, 11:33 PM
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In reply to: PT In reply to: It used to be...vague...In general though...generally considered...true big wall...generally not be considered... None of this is written in stone anywhere, just my impressions. In reply to: typical...usually... I'm chill. 8^) One thing I hate about the internet is you can't communicate voice inflections. I am not trying to be a retard (succeeding beautifully, yes?). I am just trying to get someone to think about why they need a definition. I think there is a lot about life that does not need definitions. In fact I think there are things that the more you try to define them the more you lose the conception of what their true nature is. If you do ever get a firm definition of a 'big wall' what will you have gained?
what I have gained is the knowledge of what a big wall is! The next time a newer climber than I ask me what a "big wall" is I can answer them. I personally want to be informed as I can on all aspects of climbing... thus making me a better climber!
The more about climbing I can learn through others experiences the wiser and safer I will be. So for those who defined what a big wall was thanks. You are doing your part in the climbing community!
Jesse
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celticelement
Feb 24, 2005, 12:08 AM
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dingus
Thank you for educating me.
I did not see that this was in the beginner’s forum. I just grabbed it off the front page, my bad. I would not have responded in the same way if I had seen that.
I remember when I first started lurking here. It took forever to wrap my head around the concept of Aid Climbing.
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namascar
Feb 24, 2005, 12:14 AM
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big-wall
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dingus
Feb 24, 2005, 12:17 AM
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In reply to: I did not see that this was in the beginner’s forum. I just grabbed it off the front page, my bad. I would not have responded in the same way if I had seen that.
I did that exact thing a couple of times too Bro!
Cheers
DMT
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corpse
Feb 24, 2005, 1:14 AM
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Nothing should have labels, I think everything is just marklar!
I think the marklar are so marklar, I can't marklar before I marklar or without the marklared marklars, for they will marklar with the best marklar while on marklar. Thank you, and please marklar marklar.
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markc
Feb 24, 2005, 6:56 PM
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In reply to: Why define it? *snip* Do we have to label everything or can we let what is, be what it is, without our stupid little definitions?
All subcultures have unique terms and definitions as alien to the larger culture as a foreign language. Would you make fun of a visitor to the states for asking what a forest is? Definitions, whether precise or more fluid, serve to aid communication and understanding.
Debating the need for definitions is akin to debating the need for language and communication as a whole. Words must have meaning. Sorry for the rant, your post just floored me.
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kpj240789
Mar 1, 2005, 2:06 AM
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[cyan]Is it big enough to jump off with your hella cool parachute.[/cyan]
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jamaica
Mar 1, 2005, 2:39 AM
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If it's really freaking big!
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p0bray01
Nov 23, 2005, 5:14 AM
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DAMN pmyche You must have suction cups on your hands!!! I can barely see the crack!!!
NICE exposure! See its pics like this that inspire me. :D
OHhh I have always understand big wall to mean like you had to spend a day or so on the climb and it was like 1000 or more feet?
But one guy had a point when does a wall become a mountain eh? Oh well. Big walls in my mind are kinda the pinnacle of rock climbing. IMHO what I eventually aspire to be. I will have to get used to sh(*tin' in a tube but.....
I would rather do that than get frostbite in 12 places attempting Everest...im wierd I know... :?
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holdplease2
Nov 23, 2005, 5:34 AM
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Mountains are pointy on top. Bigwalls are round on top. Regular climbs have gym pansies on top....rope.
-Kate.
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p0bray01
Nov 23, 2005, 5:50 AM
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In reply to: Mountains are pointy on top. Bigwalls are round on top. Regular climbs have gym pansies on top....rope. -Kate.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
cute....hey wait a min! I climb regular routes! :wink: 8^)
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angelina
Nov 23, 2005, 5:56 AM
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In reply to: DAMN pmyche You must have suction cups on your hands!!! I can barely see the crack!!!
Derrrr.......he's got jumars on cause he's obviously seconding the line someone else led. Don't think that's a crack as much as a clipped fixed pin.
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pmyche
Nov 23, 2005, 6:57 AM
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[]
It is a crack. With a pin in it.
And that's my wife.
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pk
Nov 23, 2005, 9:02 AM
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In reply to: It is a crack. With a pin in it. And that's my wife.
How well are you guys getting along? How close to Las Vegas is she? 8^)
P.K.
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dingus
Nov 23, 2005, 5:07 PM
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But I LIKE gym panties Kate, specually those thong thingies riding up out of the drawers, like HELLO THERE!
Very nice.
We need MORE gym panties in our sport.
DMT
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climballnight
Nov 23, 2005, 6:28 PM
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In reply to: OHhh I have always understand big wall to mean like you had to spend a day or so on the climb and it was like 1000 or more feet?
Hey guys, for the record, I like all your responses so far.
To attempt a simple answer for a not-so simple question, I think when people are talking about "Big Wall" they usually have a particular area such as El Cap or Half Dome in mind. You could probably count on your fingers and toes every commonly perceived "Big Wall" being climbed today, and yes, I think the list has already been defined.
In general I'd say “Big Wall” climbs are >2000ft, but there are exceptions to this in both directions. Today, with so many movies and books circulating about the rock-gods and icons free climbing previously aid-only routes, I think my old impression that aid was a prerequisite "Big Wall" climbing is starting to fade.
I personally think of Big Wall as requiring a bivy, a poop tube, and a lot of hauling.
:wink:
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p0bray01
Nov 23, 2005, 7:25 PM
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In reply to: But I LIKE gym panties Kate, specually those thong thingies riding up out of the drawers, like HELLO THERE! Very nice. We need MORE gym panties in our sport. DMT
:lol: :lol: you kill me bro.... :lol: :lol:
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