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crshbrn84
Mar 3, 2005, 12:36 AM
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Registered: Apr 22, 2004
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ok i live over by stoney point, I WILL NOT BE PUTTING ANY PITONS IN AT STONEY. I live up in the hills and there are alot of large sandstone cliffs and cracks up above my house. however this is really really coarse, loose and chossy sandstone meaning its crap. I want to learn aid more and more. This rock cant really take nuts that well and cams do ok. I was wondering, much of stoney point was developed with pitons, i was thinking of practicing aid up in the hills above my house, some of the cliffs are around 60-100 ft tall. What type of pitons work best in loose sandstone. I think i would be afraid to use something like a knifeblade or a wired RURP. I think long angles and lost arrows are proably the way to go. Has anyone done any aid easy or hard in stone like this? Im pretty sure hooks wont work so im no going to bother with those. I will probably do roped solo with a clove hitch when i do this so i wont bug the crap out of a belayer with all the falling rocks and dirt. Just curious to know if anyone has done anything like this? helpful hints appreciated, please try to aviod the flamage.
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coylec
Mar 3, 2005, 1:41 AM
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Registered: Jul 12, 2003
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I love your signature.
If you want to learn to aid, one of the worst ways to do so (in terms of personal safety, at least) is to attempt to climb chossy, loose rock by yourself using unfamiliar protection. Another bad way is to learn by climbing 100 year old brick walls at a southern university.
Your choice of pitons is going to be a function of what the rock will accomodate. You will (nearly) always get a better placement using the "right" piton than attempting to make a larger piton "fit." So, if the cliffs behind your house are made up of large cracks, you shouldn't even need pitons. If its made up of Lost Arrow sized cracks, use Lost Arrows. And, if they are the size of RURP blades, then play with the postage stamps. Round pegs go in round holes; square pegs go in square holes.
The real question is what are you trying to accomplish? If you are trying to become a more proficient aid climber, mileage matters. My personal opinion is that a focus on excelling using clean techniques will reap better benefits than focusing on pitoncraft. If you are looking to expand your toolbox to include nailing, I would recommend practicing just nailing.
In free climbing, I learned that you should either push the protection or push the difficulty, but never both at the same time. I believe that applies to aid climbing as well: if you are working to improve your aid technique, you should work on that. If you are looking to learn or improve your pitoncraft, you should work on that. Attempting to do both, especially while soloing, is tinkering with too many systems at once. Increased probablity of a mistake compounding across systems, so on and so forth, leads to increased risk.
coylec
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glyrocks
Mar 3, 2005, 2:01 AM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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In reply to: In free climbing, I learned that you should either push the protection or push the difficulty, but never both at the same time. I believe that applies to aid climbing as well: if you are working to improve your aid technique, you should work on that. If you are looking to learn or improve your pitoncraft, you should work on that. Attempting to do both, especially while soloing, is tinkering with too many systems at once. Increased probablity of a mistake compounding across systems, so on and so forth, leads to increased risk.
That's some awfully good advice. I can tell you there's at least one climb I wish I had consider that before I whipped off.
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skinner
Mar 3, 2005, 11:26 AM
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Registered: Nov 1, 2004
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I actually grew up climbing on loose crumbling white sandstone. I was so glad when hex's became available with tapered ends so I could leave my 60 lb+ rack of "bongs" behind for good. The only time I would start nailing would be on a crack of 1/4" or under. If the crack was large enough to fit an angle, there was always a piece of passive pro that would work better and do less damage to the rocks. I say "less" damage because in soft sandstone it is pretty much impossible to aid without leaving a trace.
Personally.. pitons and sandstone are a bad mix if you can avoid it. Passive pro if placed properly works great because the friction is awesome. Tricams work great, but you have to watch for sling abrasion
Another thing..
stay away from it when it is wet.
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crshbrn84
Mar 3, 2005, 5:43 PM
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Registered: Apr 22, 2004
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thank you guys very much for the advice. Coylec esp. Thank you. There are cracks of varrying sizes and such. Its a very large and long expanse of rock, its just not the best quality, its like what stoney point used to be before it was ever climbed or nailed. I know there are cracks up there that i can just use my tricams and regular cams and such in and i will be fine. Im not sure how much i want to use small hexes or nuts. One time when i was doing just a little bit of aid at stoney, i nearly fixed two of the nuts because the rock is sooo soft. Some areas i might just try to top rope aid so i wont have to worry so much about the unsure protection and chossy rock factor. I just want to use the area as a practice area to get myself ready for when i want to aid something bigger. eventual goal el cap. Thank you guys once again. If you have any more good beta or anything let me know
-kyle
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