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wa_hoo
Feb 28, 2005, 2:42 AM
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Okay, so I've been leading since October, so am still quite new. We went to a different gym and they had wiregate biners. I have to say I didn't like the feel at all. I actually like the weight and snapping of the regular biners as they close.
I know the wiregate ones weigh less, but I just didn't like em. Anyone else partial to the solid gate biners (is that what you call them)?
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glyrocks
Feb 28, 2005, 2:45 AM
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Nope, I love me wiregates. They're light, and clip the rope like a champ.
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ikellen
Feb 28, 2005, 2:48 AM
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I dont know how hard you lead, but once you get on HARD overhanging stuff where you need to clip fast, you will love wiregates ;)
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ryan112ryan
Feb 28, 2005, 2:57 AM
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i was the same way, they are actually better, wire gates avoid "gate shudder" which normal carbs suffer from, which can be serious. plus they are lighter and just as strong:
In reply to: In reply to: i seem to have this metal idea that wire gates are weaker Upon first visual inspection it could be easy to think that, but a quick look at the strength ratings printed on the 'biner should dispel that idea. Some samples from my rack; major axis, gate closed: Petzl Spirit: 23 kN (not a wire gate) BD Positron: 25 kN (not a wire gate) BD Neutrino: 24 kN (wire gate) BD Hotwire 25 kN (wire gate) As you can see, both of the wire gates in this particular group are in fact rated as strong or stonger than the weakest non-wire gated 'biner. Now what about open-gate strength? Spirit: 9.5 kN Positron: 9kN Neutrino: 8 kN Hotwire: 9kN The (limited) data indicate that there is no correlation between wire gates and weaker strength ratings. Hope that helps. --J Edited for spelling
so just visually make sure that the rope is clipped, which you already should to guard against back / Z clipping, which im sure you do :)
also check this thread which is kinda related and where the above quote comes from http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p?t=80951&highlight=
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overlord
Feb 28, 2005, 2:26 PM
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its mostly a matter of preference. i really like them (so easy to clip, no shutter etc) so i use them. but if you dont like them, feel free to use "normal" biners.
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shorty
Feb 28, 2005, 6:06 PM
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Biners are definitely a personal preference item. When you're on the sharp end, confidence with your gear allows you to free you mind to concentrating on the task at hand.
After using -- and unfortunately sometimes buying -- a number of brands and types of biners over the years, I ended up standardizing most of my rack with Petzl Spirits. I like Spirits because they are relatively strong, have a notchless gate, are relatively light weight, have a great feel, and make a reassuring sound when clipped. OK, so the sound is probably a lame reason. Spirits may no longer be a state-of-the-art biner, in part due to their now somewhat pudgy 50 grams weight. But I really, really like their feel.
Not long ago I scored some booty BD Live Wires, my first wire gates. Until I used them, I had an emotional dislike of wire gate biners. I know wire gates are lighter and can be designed to be very strong, but I just didn't like their feel. Now I'm sold on the Live Wires, and even have a some BD Oval Wires for racking and general use.
My bottom line is that I still like my purdy anodized Spirits, but in many situations I feel certain wire gate biners are at least equal in utility. And if Petzl (or BD) ever makes a notchless wire Spirit (or notchless wire Positron) that feels as good as the regular Spirits, some climbing shop is going to be very happy to see me walk in with my MasterCard in hand.
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chanceboarder
Feb 28, 2005, 6:17 PM
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i really like my wiregates. when i first started i used a friends draws and they had bent gates on them and they were ok but once i discovered wiregates i never looked back. they're easier to clip and lighter. i use hotwires for just about everything. they're on the rope one of both my sport draws and trad draws and i use the for racking my cams.
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csgambill
Feb 28, 2005, 6:30 PM
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I use BD Positrons (solid gate) when I'm sport climbing, and Omega Pacific Dovals (wire gate) on my trad draws. I have to agree I like the "snick" sound of a solid gate biner closing, but as far as keeping you alive they both do the trick equally well.
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fire_eyes
Feb 28, 2005, 6:42 PM
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Well, either way (I have DMM wirelocks for the bulk of my trad rack, and some new BD positron keylocks) I just prefer to have the keylock feature to the 'hook nose' type which can catch on stuff a littler easier. Wirelocks are lighter which makes a difference when you've got 40 of 'em on your harness...
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mr8615
Feb 28, 2005, 6:52 PM
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Hotwires rule. All you do is wave the rope near them and they swallow it right up. Clipping couldn't be smoother. Seriously, rope end (trad or sport) equals hotwire.
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rockhound71
Feb 28, 2005, 7:02 PM
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In reply to: fire_eyes said: Well, either way (I have DMM wirelocks for the bulk of my trad rack, and some new BD positron keylocks) I just prefer to have the keylock feature to the 'hook nose' type which can catch on stuff a littler easier. Wirelocks are lighter which makes a difference when you've got 40 of 'em on your harness...
I love the DMM Wirelocks!!!
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kpj240789
Feb 28, 2005, 9:03 PM
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I thought the same for a little while and like the feel of clipping solid gates but wire gates are easier to clip.
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jumpingrock
Feb 28, 2005, 10:45 PM
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2 things:
1) My big fat fingers don't fit in regular biners while I am clipping a rope. Thus I use wires.
2) That wonderful sound that a regular biner makes when you clip is still made when you miss the clip. Therefore your belayer may decide that you have cliped and it's time to take up some slack...
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reach
Feb 28, 2005, 10:54 PM
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wire gates are smooth like butter
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oklahoma_climber
Feb 28, 2005, 10:59 PM
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my preference: wiregates on lead, bent gates for racking, old school ovals for anchors and slacklining
In reply to: That wonderful sound that a regular biner makes when you clip is still made when you miss the clip. Therefore your belayer may decide that you have cliped and it's time to take up some slack...
at which point you grab the next available piece off your rack and aim for his head..... or, you avoid this scenario and develop a hand/verbal signal system with your belayer of choice and this is not a concern.
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wa_hoo
Mar 1, 2005, 3:23 AM
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So since we're still in the beginner section, why do you many of you use bent gate (notchless) biners for sport and wire gate ones for trad? I love the notchless feel and like how they clean much better. I am planning on buying a set of Spirits this spring (my first set of draws). I'm still thinking that's the best option for single pitch sport for me.
Does the cleaning of gear work that much differently in trad that the wire gates are better for that? Thanks for all the info!
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jt512
Mar 1, 2005, 3:52 AM
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In reply to: So since we're still in the beginner section, why do you many of you use bent gate (notchless) biners for sport and wire gate ones for trad? I love the notchless feel and like how they clean much better. I am planning on buying a set of Spirits this spring (my first set of draws). I'm still thinking that's the best option for single pitch sport for me. Does the cleaning of gear work that much differently in trad that the wire gates are better for that? Thanks for all the info!
For trad, the leader is carrying a lot of gear, so weight becomes an issue, and wiregate biners are lighter than conventional gate biners. Indeed, the new wiregate, notchless Wild Country Helium has got to be the ultimate trad biner, as it is practically weightless, yet very strong. Surprisingly, however, I found that I didn't like them for sport climbing. They are so light that they offer no resistance when you try to clip them, and unless you concentrate, they can flip around in your hand. Besides, weight is not a serious issue for sport climbing anyway, since, for any hard sends, the draws will most likely already be in place. So, I still prefer a beefier draw, like a Petzl Spirit, for sport.
-Jay
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fire_eyes
Mar 1, 2005, 4:06 AM
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Hi Jay! Nice answer...much better than that brain-bending formula for rating routes :? That one nearly short-circuited my brain :lol:
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kalcario
Mar 1, 2005, 4:08 AM
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*So since we're still in the beginner section, why do you many of you use bent gate (notchless) biners for sport and wire gate ones for trad?*
I'm the other way around; notchless biners are better for trad because your wired stoppers don't get hung up in the notches, and you're actually climbing when you're cleaning trad routes, so notchless is easier. For sport though, you're hanging on the rope when you're taking the draws off, so who cares if the notches hang up in the hangers. Also for some reason the notches make me feel more secure, unwarranted I'm sure.
I think wire gates make bent gates obsolete, I'd rather have a lighter biner than a bent gate myself
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wa_hoo
Mar 1, 2005, 4:11 AM
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:D ditto - thanks Jay.
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jakedatc
Mar 1, 2005, 4:11 AM
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In reply to: Hi Jay! Nice answer...much better than that brain-bending formula for rating routes :? That one nearly short-circuited my brain :lol:
You mean that isn't right? shit.. i gotta go change my 8a scorecard to a MUCH smaller number... :oops: :oops:
when i find some $ i'm changing my draws to notchless on top and keeping my kick freaking ass OP JC wire gates for the rope side.. these have spoiled me rotten and i mess up clips on just about anything else
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kalcario
Mar 1, 2005, 4:15 AM
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* Besides, weight is not a serious issue for sport climbing anyway, since, for any hard sends, the draws will most likely already be in place. So, I still prefer a beefier draw, like a Petzl Spirit, for sport.*
Weight is definitely an issue when leaving the ground with 17 draws, like on Carpe Diem for instance, or 35 meter limestone routes...I'll take my BD Neutrinos for that over Spirits any day
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bustloose
Mar 4, 2005, 7:12 PM
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In reply to: so just visually make sure that the rope is clipped,
as opposed to.....?
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hosh
Mar 4, 2005, 7:40 PM
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Neutrinos for life. All my small cams and the rope end of all my Alpine draws are fitted with Neutrinos. Yeah, I've used the Spirits. They were my first biners and I liked them. But they've been replaced wtih Positrons and Neutrinos. I'd suggest that you simply use what you like. If you don't like wiregates, then don't use them. If you feel yo should like wiregates, then buy a few. It's no real big deal...
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