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skecthballer
Mar 12, 2005, 6:14 PM
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use a triple fishermans and tie an overhand or figure eight at the power point.
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jakedatc
Mar 12, 2005, 6:18 PM
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if the double fishermans its correct then you can just leave it in there now. although you may want to redo it a few times to a) practice.. b) shorten the tails to __ inches (i forget what the standard length usually is)
looks good except you need to tie a power point(figure 8 on a bight with all the strands equalized)
again.. you really need alot of instruction in person.. reading a book will only get you so far... (and im not sure why your book didnt have you do a powerpoint)
you have over a month till you leave.. go take a class
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korporal
Mar 12, 2005, 6:19 PM
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Personally, I think a triple would be overkill. If you were trying to make a self equalizing anchor you did it. If you were trying to make a static equalized anchor you need to add a knot at the power point.
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rockrat511
Mar 12, 2005, 6:21 PM
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good start but you're not redundent.
Grab up all the rope at the chair leg into a bight and toss an overhand or figure eight into it.
should look like this.
chair
O
8
//||\\
// || \\
O O O
O=biner
8= figure8 on a bight
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bmxer
Mar 12, 2005, 6:28 PM
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Thanx, that's exactly what I was going to ask just now. The picture had an overhand or figureeight shown at the master point. I was wondering if that's done for different reasons. Ok thanx. Let me try it.
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reach
Mar 12, 2005, 6:34 PM
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find someone with some experience. Get them to teach you.
You do need an overhand at the master point. The reason is that if one of the nachor points goes it will shock load the system dropping the master point a a foot or two in your case. and overhand would get rid of that problem. It would also mean that you wouldn't need to fool around with the magic x.
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topher
Mar 12, 2005, 6:36 PM
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use an over hand not a figuer 8... an over had uses less rope and has less twists in it there for it doesnt reduce the cords strength by as much....
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reach
Mar 12, 2005, 6:36 PM
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And if you do shorten the tails on the double fishermans make shure they are still about 3 inches long.
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ctardi
Mar 12, 2005, 6:41 PM
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Looks good,but yes, put either an overhand or a figure eight knot at the powerpoint. Also, I wouldn't trust a swivel chair as a link between me and my anchor ;)
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hersh_ml
Mar 12, 2005, 7:19 PM
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Depends on the situation. If its self equalized, you dont want a static power point. If its only going to be pulled in one direction, you would want it to be static. Whenever possible have it be static, as mentioned about shock loading the system if one anchor point fails.
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dutyje
Mar 12, 2005, 7:26 PM
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Hey, that's the same BlueWater 7mm nylon cordalette I got free with my Accelerator a year ago :)
I took a class (actually two classes) in anchor building, but I remember setting up my free cordalette as practice when I got it, too. Anyway, the double fisherman's is fine and by the look of it you've got a little extra tail. Too much is better than too little, but you'll stick yourself with more bulk and less usable cordage.
Find something to string up your cordalette in up to 3 spots and practice equalizing it with a figure 8 (I prefer the 8 because it's easier to untie and seems to sit a little more evenly). Do this a few times, pretending you're anchoring against pull in a slightly different direction each time. Before you take it outdoors, though, please get qualified hands-on instruction.
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bmxer
Mar 12, 2005, 11:38 PM
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In reply to: Hey, that's the same BlueWater 7mm nylon cordalette I got free with my Accelerator a year ago :) I took a class (actually two classes) in anchor building, but I remember setting up my free cordalette as practice when I got it, too. Anyway, the double fisherman's is fine and by the look of it you've got a little extra tail. Too much is better than too little, but you'll stick yourself with more bulk and less usable cordage. Find something to string up your cordalette in up to 3 spots and practice equalizing it with a figure 8 (I prefer the 8 because it's easier to untie and seems to sit a little more evenly). Do this a few times, pretending you're anchoring against pull in a slightly different direction each time. Before you take it outdoors, though, please get qualified hands-on instruction.
Thats exactly what I plan on doing, thanx for the help everyone.
Ok a quick question:
Which do you think is better to use:
a) cordallette anchor shown above (done the right way of course)
b) a sliding x using one runner
c) a sliding x using two runners ?
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dutyje
Mar 13, 2005, 1:03 AM
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If your'e equalizing 3 or more points, the cordalette will be the way to go. I've always preferred the cordalette, even for equalizing 2 points, but I've got a shorter cordalette for use in those circumstances, because 20' is way too much. I've used the sliding X (make sure you tie off both arms) on rare occasions, and it works just fine. I'm just really quick with a cordalette because it's what I learned first. Another option is fully independent anchor arms built back from the power point and equalized that way. If it's SRENE, it's good.
I think I've seen you on a few other threads asking for tons of info before you head out. I know that there's gotta be somebody around who will let you tag along for a day at the crag and give you some pointers.
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csgambill
Mar 13, 2005, 1:55 AM
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Here's how you it should look with the overhand knot everyone keeps mentioning. The tails on the double fisherman's should be a little longer, this is just how I store my cordlette. 20' is a good length for a two or three point anchor. Again, make sure your anchor is SRENE:
S - Solid
R - Redundant - overhand knot takes care of this, if one point fails you'll still live.
E - Equalized
NE - No Extension - if one point fails the system will not become slack and drop the climber, shockloading the remaining two points.
http://www.csgambill.org/anchor.jpg
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bmxer
Mar 13, 2005, 7:01 AM
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sweet that looks real nice, thanx.
I'm not sure if I understand the difference between redundant and no extension.
I think one of them means, if one of the carabiners comes undone, the weight will shift and you want that overhand knot there to keep it from gettng shocked.
Anyway I don't want to be asking too many questions, it probably gets annoying answering all this noob stuff.
I'm gonna try to squeeze in atleast a couple classes before I leave, and I'm sure to find people there. Just trying to soak as much info as I can here. Thanx again.
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tattooed_climber
Mar 13, 2005, 7:25 AM
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buy a john longs: ANCHOR book....and some knots books.....practice them alot...
i play a game with the knowledge i have....grab a knot book i see, flip though it and try to find one i don't know.....sometimes find i one (ussual a variation of one i already know).....
and if you are just learning a double fishermans, then you still have a long way to go..
secondly, someone said they don'tknow the proper tail length...
tail length should = 'X' cm based on 'X'mm of cord/rope diametre
SO on a 8mm cordellete, there should be 8cm of tail after the double/triple fishermans knots...
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kman
Mar 13, 2005, 1:31 PM
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In reply to: sweet that looks real nice, thanx. I'm not sure if I understand the difference between redundant and no extension. I think one of them means, if one of the carabiners comes undone, the weight will shift and you want that overhand knot there to keep it from gettng shocked. Anyway I don't want to be asking too many questions, it probably gets annoying answering all this noob stuff. I'm gonna try to squeeze in atleast a couple classes before I leave, and I'm sure to find people there. Just trying to soak as much info as I can here. Thanx again.
Redundant means that if some thing on your anchor fails there is some thing to back it up.
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rendog
Mar 13, 2005, 1:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: blah blah blah Redundant means that if some thing on your anchor fails there is some thing to back it up.
in the dictionary under redundent it says see redundant
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bmxer
Mar 13, 2005, 6:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: blah blah blah Redundant means that if some thing on your anchor fails there is some thing to back it up. in the dictionary under redundent it says see redundant
lol, that actually works.
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csgambill
Mar 13, 2005, 7:46 PM
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In reply to: sweet that looks real nice, thanx. I'm not sure if I understand the difference between redundant and no extension. I think one of them means, if one of the carabiners comes undone, the weight will shift and you want that overhand knot there to keep it from gettng shocked.
Redundant means that if a biner breaks (will probably never happen) or if one point of the anchor pulls or one part of the cordlette gets cut the whole setup won't fall apart resulting in you plumeting to a grizly demise.
No Extension means that if one of the aforementioned situations happens, pro pulls or cordlette gets sliced, the other points of the anchor already have some weight on them and the full weight will transfer to the remaining points gradually instead of snapping onto them quickly. So, when you first set up your anchor and pull on your power point in the direction it will be weighted you don't want any slack. No Extension goes hand-in-hand with Equalized. Generally speaking, if your anchor is equalized, it should also have the quality of No Extension.
Don't worry about asking too many questions - unless they're stupid - answering questions like these just helps me solidify my knowlege even more. So, ask away; you've got to learn somehow. Although it sounds fairly complicated, this basic anchor stuff is really pretty easy to understand when you see it applied.
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bmxer
Mar 30, 2005, 12:44 AM
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ok I just built a cordallette anchor in my backyard from a tree.
Here's some things I noticed about it. But I would appreciate feedback.
- Obviously the branches are about 2-3 inches thick, thicker would be better.
- Actually I would've liked to use the runners to wrap 3 pull 2 but they weren't long enough, so what I did was wrap them around and twisted one.
- The gates on two of the top anchor points should be facing away from the tree, but their not touching the tree anyway so it's ok in this case.
- I realized that having 2, 12" runners and 2, 24" runners aren't long enough to wrap around most legetimate things. Should I buy 48 inch runners also?
http://img.photobucket.com/.../Soteki/DSC05587.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/.../Soteki/DSC05586.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/.../Soteki/DSC05585.jpg
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caughtinside
Mar 30, 2005, 1:03 AM
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All that advice, and you still forgot to tie an overhand! Tut, tut! :lol:
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gunksgoer
Mar 30, 2005, 1:22 AM
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you also dont need lockers on every piece, its not necesary.
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bmxer
Mar 30, 2005, 1:24 AM
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In reply to: All that advice, and you still forgot to tie an overhand! Tut, tut! :lol:
lol actually I did after I took the pictures. But I like the self-equalizing funciton better cuz I had a carabiner in my belay loop and I was swinging back and forth on it to take pictures from diff. angles.
Also can you please help me get my initial questions answered.
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