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akclimber


Mar 13, 2005, 4:47 PM
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Aid Climbing Tips and Tricks
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Well here is the deal.

I got into aiding last summer. Pretty fun. I am the only one I know up here that really does any aiding. Problem is, I GO SO SLOW! It takes me an hour to go up a nice crack that is half a pitch.

One of the problems is that I am not a friend of the top 2 steps. How do I get on them without feeling like I am coming off?

I use a traditional daisy, do you use a fifi with it? I have been clipping with a biner.

Also using a chest harness, finding gear is relatively quick, so I don't think that is a problem.

Any info\tips\tricks appreciated.
Anything else?


jimdavis


Mar 13, 2005, 4:51 PM
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Yeah, you want the Fifi on regular daisies. Top stepping is some hard stuff, just practice on easy lower angle stuff.

Jim


Partner hosh


Mar 13, 2005, 4:57 PM
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hey, come to Juneau so we can suck at aiding together!

hosh.


akclimber


Mar 15, 2005, 11:23 PM
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Come on, some one knows something. I read through PTPP's posts, sounds like adjustable daiseys can make things easier. Is it true? Or is it more of preference? Did the Russian aid system ever catch on? I know there are some big-wallers here, cough up the tricks on efficiency please!


pk


Mar 15, 2005, 11:54 PM
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In reply to:
Come on, some one knows something. I read through PTPP's posts, sounds like adjustable daiseys can make things easier. Is it true? Or is it more of preference? Did the Russian aid system ever catch on? I know there are some big-wallers here, cough up the tricks on efficiency please!

I'm no big waller here but the few things that might help:

Most of the aid that I have done ( 100 pitches max ) the most important thing to move fast is to get use to your own system of moving fast. You are not going to climb like anyone else, the important part about moving fast is logging hours on the rock honing these systems.

When I started I would log hours at a time on a single pitch, lead it rap down jug and clean, rince and repeat. This was done solo as to not piss of my current climbing partners.

Take one step at a time! If you start out trying to lead, rap, jug, haul your going to find yourself in a confusing clusterfuck. start by honing your systems like said. Once you get that down, then go on to hauling penji's etc.

Basics first! If you are doing this alone like you said. Don't get over your head. Stick to C1 routes for your first 20 pitches or so, getting this all down takes time and there is no substitute for it.

P.K.


akclimber


Mar 16, 2005, 9:54 PM
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Once you get that down, then go on to hauling penji's etc.

Definition? :oops:


tarzan420


Mar 16, 2005, 10:03 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Once you get that down, then go on to hauling penji's etc.

Definition? :oops:

missing commas make life interesting... i'm not sure how one would haul a penji...

hauling - like hauling a haul bag full of junk

penji, ie. pendulum - swinging on the rope from one feature to another.


kman


Mar 16, 2005, 11:11 PM
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It's really too bad that PTPP isn't around anymore. That guy is a wealth of information and has an awesome writing style. Doesn't really make sense as to why he was banned. Too many detractors I suppose.


moof


Mar 16, 2005, 11:55 PM
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In reply to:
Come on, some one knows something. I read through PTPP's posts, sounds like adjustable daiseys can make things easier. Is it true? Or is it more of preference? Did the Russian aid system ever catch on? I know there are some big-wallers here, cough up the tricks on efficiency please!

I lent my adjustable dasies to some friends, one new to aid, the other somewhat experienced. By the end of the day they drove into town to pick up a set themselves. They are luxury. The pain is extending them out each time, it's one of my time hogs (place gear, clip gear, snug daisy, sit, unclip lower piece, clip rope or backclean, extend daisy, clip to harness, climb rings, repeat...). If you don't extend it out, especially when you only extend it part way, you end up in some top step position screwing around with it trying to clip the next piece.

The russian aider options are still meager. Russ at Fish makes good trees, but no cuffs (much better than my version. It would be nice if he used beefier rings at the top of his aid trees, mine have ovalized some after levering the bejeesus out of them on overhung stuff. I made my own cuffs and I'm pretty damn happy with them, but it took three attempts before I got them dialed. As a system I think it is more natural to use, I confidently top-ring frequently on overhung stuff without feeling like I'm about to teeter off.


akclimber


Mar 18, 2005, 9:59 PM
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Done. Thanks for all of your advice.
Adjustable diasys coming in the mail.

Also I bought some pitons. I chose knifeblades instead of Lost Arrows.

Next round of questions:

1. Is there any good reason to get some Lost Arrows or will the knifeblades cover most of thier range?

2. When slinging a hook, how long should the sling be dangling down? The loop ends about 3 inches from the holes on mine . Should it be shorter? Or will shortening just make them teeter totter more?

3. I tried to follow PTPP's leap frogging method for jugging, but did not understand it very well. Anyone have some sort of simplification or pictures that show it?

Thanks, guys, keep the info rollin please.


akclimber


Mar 18, 2005, 10:02 PM
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Also, as far as top stepping goes, I did it on lower angled terrain like you said Jim. Was MUCH easier. If I could only do it on an overhang now....


pk


Mar 18, 2005, 10:55 PM
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In reply to:
2. When slinging a hook, how long should the sling be dangling down? The loop ends about 3 inches from the holes on mine . Should it be shorter? Or will shortening just make them teeter totter more?

It willl, depend on the route! On some routes a one inche on it will be a make or break it for a short climber ( without a clip ) Spend some time with it. You will soon learn. It takes some time to learn you own systems

P.K.


mingleefu


Mar 19, 2005, 12:26 AM
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1.) I'm not qualified to talk about the differences betweens arrows and kb's.

2.) about hooks: check out the Tradgirl.com FAQ on hooks. Recommends 2-3" loop. Shorter is generally better. As well, Climbing recently did a tech tip on hooking

3.) Leap frogging method.. There was recently a "tech tip" on this method of jugging. The article was written by some hoseur named Pete Zabrok who "coincidently" has the same name as PTPP. The following image is a link to the article.

http://climbing.com/techtips/226ttaid-2.gif

PS- I'm a fan of the tech tips (and R&I's tech sections also). no, I'm not getting paid to endorse them, though maybe I should be. I used to lurk on rec.climbing, and this sort of "non-endorsement" disclaimer was pretty much mandatory there. ah, nostalgia...


akclimber


Mar 19, 2005, 11:57 PM
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Thanks. I used a similar method to leapfrogging today with the ascender connected directly to the harness (was lower angle terrain), it is much faster for sure. Will be sure to try out the frog in vertical terrain ASAP.

Still looking for more info on the pitons question involving Lost Arrow and Knifeblade's.

More questions:

1. My harness sucks for hanging in any real amount of time. Is this one pretty sweet? Or is there something better?

2. Do angle pitons really have a purpose on the new age climbers rack? Seem as though to me, most can be substituted for clean pro.

3. What does chongo's wall book cover? Is is mostly on sytems dealing with big walls? Or are there more simplistic aid techniqes in there too?


In case anyone is wondering: I am very ambitious and a fast learner. I also intend to keep posting questions. So feel free to post up with any\all info you can give me. I want to know the better way. 8^)


smellyhippie


Mar 20, 2005, 7:37 AM
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Hey there,

Knifeblades do not cover the same range as Lost Arrows. Clean gear does not totally replace the need for angle pins, especially sawed-off angles. The shield is a great harness. If you're looking for "simpistic aid", Chongo's book is tmi.


Partner pt


Mar 20, 2005, 7:51 AM
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I don't think you will use the blades too much, unless you're doing first ascents of thin cracks. For existing aid routes you will probably use lost arrows and sawed off angles more. Just my experience.


moof


Mar 20, 2005, 10:45 AM
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In reply to:
More questions:

1. My harness sucks for hanging in any real amount of time. Is this one pretty sweet? Or is there something better?

Shield is way comfy. I'm fat, my partners always seem to be too slow, and the shield makes them 3-5 hours belays only mind bogglingly boring, but not painful.

Be careful on sizing, Yates harnesses run large. Mine was supposed to be 36-40" range, I'm a 38" fatass, and my shield is cinched within an inch of it's minimum. My yates astroman (thinner, but still pretty damn comfy) is a large and is supposed to be 33-37", and is right in it's mid range. Your mileage may vary.


timmy_t


Mar 20, 2005, 11:07 AM
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I would hold off on pounding pins until you get a real good feel for when to place and how. Work your systems on clean aid and you will get a feel for what your comfort zone is and all that jazz. Seems like you are getting some good suggestions. Practice, practice, practice. You can only get faster! Another tidbit is for easy aid (C1 and 2) don't spend too much time making every piece way bomber.


akclimber


Mar 20, 2005, 3:17 PM
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I would hold off on pounding pins until you get a real good feel for when to place and how. Work your systems on clean aid and you will get a feel for what your comfort zone is and all that jazz. Seems like you are getting some good suggestions. Practice, practice, practice. You can only get faster! Another tidbit is for easy aid (C1 and 2) don't spend too much time making every piece way bomber.

Sorry. I just can't stop hammering. Too much fun.

As far as having no place for Knifeblades, there are a TON of thin cracks in the mountains right out of Anchorage, I plan on using some later in the week.

However, while on the piton subject, who has much experience here with RURP? Do you bounce test them or just go for it?

What about bashies? Bounce or no bounce?

Thanks.


moof


Mar 20, 2005, 11:50 PM
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In reply to:
2.) about hooks: check out the Tradgirl.com FAQ on hooks. Recommends 2-3" loop. Shorter is generally better. As well, Climbing recently did a tech tip on hooking

I didn't like that one. It advocates watching the hook. Hooks are shy little critters with teeth. When scared by voyuers they violently bite back. Never watch the hook. Keep a hand over it to keep it from jumping off and snagging on your lip, or worse.


Partner coldclimb


Mar 21, 2005, 12:28 AM
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In reply to:
However, while on the piton subject, who has much experience here with RURP? Do you bounce test them or just go for it?

What about bashies? Bounce or no bounce?

Thanks.

If you do start messing with Bashies Jon, invite me. I want (need) to get some experience with those this spring sometime. :D


peroxide


Mar 21, 2005, 2:16 AM
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Dude...
find a chosspile quick.

As a guy who has come into the world of nailing recently, the best thing I have done is going out to a semi sheltered chosspile to visit during rainy days. I bring the pin rack etc. and have some fun.

NAILING
Pins pins pins. Bounce test, tie off, do stacks, see what you can get away with. RURPS are cool in hard rock but I find limestone just doesnt cut it. Normally a beak will work better.

Anlges. In virgin rock you occasianally will have the use of full length angle in flared cracks where an offset alien may not work. Normally a sawed off will work perfect in a boxed out pinscar (A1) where an offset alien or tricam may barely hold (C3). Otherwise it is a question of boldness.

MASHIES
This is where the nailing gets artistic. The only thing not to bounce test in my opinion are hooks (which just doesnt make sense). Otherwise a string of placements, not bounce tested, and you are rolling dice. Try to place and bounce the hell out of #2 heads and up.

#1 heads or the legendary #0s take a divine grace. In a perfect placement a #1 can be pretty tough (but you will be able to clean it with one or two jerks of the hammer) and #0s are like hanging by a piece of hardened gum.

Rock on
Andrzej


glockaroo


Mar 21, 2005, 7:35 AM
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Definitely test RURPs and heads. In hard rock, RURPs are amazing.

Some cool tricks to try:

- stack a KB with a small stopper. Fills the gap nicely and you have a built-in tieoff for low leverage. Lighter weight & cheaper than stacking w/ LAs.

- stack a KB with a RURP. Same as above, just thinner. Don't forget the keeper sling.

- in chunky/junky slots, stack a KB with a head. Use this in pockets where there's not enough flat surface area for use w/ a stopper. The KB's surface can really moosh the head's metal into weirdly textured rock inside the slot where your chisel can't reach.

- stack 2 RURPs in a horizontal seam with a piece of 1/2" tieoff webbing through the center holes. Insert webbing before hammering the placement.

- did I mention stacking?

- once you get proficient at heading & nailing, consider equalizing 2 sketchy placements that alone would not hold but together might get you through. Equalize with tied runners where you can retie the knot so that the sling is exactly the right size: long enough to equalize, but as short as possible so as to maximize reach.

- when you land that rare solid piece of pro during a tough aid pitch, clip it to the rope with a locker or 2 biners reversed & opposed. You can't afford biner failure, and the most likely failure mode is from gate flutter or gate smack during the fall.


Partner mr8615


Mar 21, 2005, 8:27 AM
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I'm eating these tips up! Keep them coming! What do you all use with adjustable daisys to cushion the dreaded daisy fall? Screamers?

Mark


akclimber


Mar 21, 2005, 10:26 PM
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Moof: I agree on the hooks, I don't like to watch em, and also put my hand on them. Also it is scary to look at what your standing on. :cry:

Coldclimb: Some coming in the mail, along with an RURP. I will start whacking soon as I get em. :twisted:

Peroxid and Glockaroo: You guys sure do enjoy stacking, will be sure to try some on my next venture.
It was mentioned equalizing two not so great placements, wouldn't it be faster to make it self equalizing with a sewn runner? Or am I missing something.... :lol:
I like the idea of using a locker\2 opposite and opposed.

mr8615: What is your question again? :shock:

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