|
rossgoddard
Mar 6, 2005, 3:34 PM
Post #1 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 181
|
i'm looking for some opinions on using a leash on an alpine piolet. I never use one unless im on glacier, leading using piolet traction, or on really steep, really sketchy snow. When i do ise it, it is a very looks wrist leash. Some of my friends leash them to their harness all the time (i do this on glacier), or use a tight wrist leash.
My fear about a tight wrist leash and harness leash is that if i take a big spill, i dont wnat an axe flailing aroumd and giving me an adze to the eye. I'd rather attempt to stop using my elbows, knees and maybe feet.
what do others do?
|
|
|
|
|
overzealous
Mar 6, 2005, 4:34 PM
Post #2 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 257
|
In reply to: I'd rather attempt to stop using my elbows, knees and maybe feet. what do others do?
Good luck with that on hard snow or ice :wink:
My vote is to leash your axe, consider that your lifeline. You may be able to self arrest without it on easy ground but if you fall without it on hard terrian you're screwed..
Someone with more alpine experience feel free to chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong.
Oh yea... and hold onto the damn axe in the first place.
|
|
|
|
|
johnhemlock
Mar 6, 2005, 6:09 PM
Post #3 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2004
Posts: 311
|
I don't use any leash unless I'm on steep snow or ice and might need it to support some of my weight. In piolet canne on a flat glacier I don't see the harm but once you have to start switching hands a leash is a liability. I don't think the harness leash is a particularly good idea, either. I just make sure not to drop the axe.
|
|
|
|
|
altelis
Mar 6, 2005, 7:14 PM
Post #4 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168
|
i use a leash out of 1/4 inch webbing that has a LOOSE wrist loop on the end. this way its easy to set up a quick hip belay with the piolet as a backup (deadman or otherwise, just clip it into the harness). The loop is loose enough that switching hands is a cinch and in case of tumbling fall, if i let go, the axe could come loose, thereby quelling your fear of hurting yourself. But it is tight enough that in a light tumble the axe is recoverable. i think this is the way to go.
|
|
|
|
|
montaniero
Mar 6, 2005, 9:58 PM
Post #5 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2004
Posts: 238
|
In reply to: what do others do?
Leash, always. Unless you are into modern mixed drytooling with the ergo-type of tools. Tubular webbing is fine for a non-technical leash. I never leash my mountaineering axe to my harness, just my wrist. Sometimes when I am climbing some mixed alpine terrain, its nice to leash to the harness and use a tool holster, I hate the tools dangling form my wrists and hitting the rock.
|
|
|
|
|
paulraphael
Mar 7, 2005, 4:33 AM
Post #6 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2004
Posts: 670
|
I always have a leash on my piolet; typically tied with 9/16 webbing into a loose wrist loop. it's easy to slide a gloved hand in and out of. Here's the thing: for most snow climbing you won't use it. Just let it hang. It won't get in the way. You'll be able to switch hands easily as you change directions and techniques. But if you need it, for steep stuff, it's there. You do not want the thing tied to your harness, except for travel on a big glacier. There, you will only be walking with it like a cane, so it doesn't matter. But to try to climb steep snow or moderate ice with a tool leashed to your harness will be an incredible nuissance at best. At worst you'll trip yourself and tumble off a cliff. Much better to just hire a butch woman to tie you up and thrash you than to try to do it yourself like that.
|
|
|
|
|
mesomorf
Mar 7, 2005, 4:52 AM
Post #7 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2002
Posts: 397
|
Never leash. Become one with your piolet.
|
|
|
|
|
slobmonster
Mar 7, 2005, 5:21 AM
Post #8 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 1586
|
In reply to: Never leash. Become one with your piolet. |
|
|
|
|
jude
Mar 9, 2005, 3:54 AM
Post #9 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 2, 2003
Posts: 67
|
Leash.
Nobody says you have to use it. You can use it support your grip, let the axe dangle, stick it in the snow to set up a quick belay, etc. Sometimes my leash is loose, sometimes left or right, sometimes clipped to my harness. Even when I stow it, the leash makes sure I don't lose it. I just slip it under my pack and clip it to my harness.
One technique I've seen (but never used), is a relatively long ~5' loopless leash. The climber wraps it around her axe if she doesn't want to use it, and around her wrist if she does. I personally don't like the idea, but she has a lot more experience than I do so if it works for her I won't argue.
The first US woman to climb Everest had a story to tell about loosing her axe. Unfortunately I forget both her name and the name of the book, but the lesson was: Don't.
I put my axe through my face once on a poorly planned glissade. When I stopped I was pretty happy I still had it. (Not only because it was my first piece of gear.)
Option 2: devise some sort of quick attach/remove system to allow you to tailor the leash to the climb. Never done it but just an idea.
Another thought, I'd hate to look up and see your axe after you lost it.
Jude
|
|
|
|
|
anykineclimb
Mar 9, 2005, 10:35 AM
Post #10 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 3593
|
leash,
Somertimes. Its on the piolet but if I'm slogging, zigzagging up easy ground and need to switch hands; it just dangles or I wrap around the head to make it more comfy. Then, if I need it, its there.
Yates and wild country make nice simple leashes or make one out of some thin tubular.
Oh! great idea!!! Mammut needs to makes piolet leashes out of their 8mm webbing! well, it can be thicker for the wrist...
|
|
|
|
|
jimdavis
Mar 12, 2005, 7:03 AM
Post #11 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1935
|
I would think if not being able to self arrest means death...use a leash. Who cares about a puncture wound if your taking the big one?
If it's no big deal if you slide and loose the axe, then leave the leash off.
That just seems to be the answer for me.
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
ron_burgandy
Mar 12, 2005, 8:05 AM
Post #12 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 186
|
I keep a short (6-8in) spectra sling girth hitched to the head of my axe, rarely use it as a leash (I find it too cumbersome and awkward when climbing even steep/hard snow) but it is there if I need it should the occasion arise. otherwise I have found it useful to setup an ice axe belay quickly. With the spectra sling, it is so thin that it is barely noticable.
|
|
|
|
|
chico
Mar 25, 2005, 12:18 AM
Post #13 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 39
|
I keep a leash made out of 11/16 tubular webbing tied to the head of my axe. 9 times out 10 it is simply looped over the head so that it dangles harmlessly along the shaft. If I need it for retention on special circumstances or glacier travel, it's there. Also if you put your hand on the shaft and slide it toward the spike it adds a bit of grip security for chopping steps. Be careful of using the leash when on moderate angle slopes, or switch back terrain. I've seen the effects of people who trundle and loose control of their axe. Not pretty. Granted that on steep ice or hard snow your chances of stopping without your axe are slim to nill, you are not going to have any better chance if the damn thing flails around and knocks you out cold. Just don't let go of the head and you'll be in good shape. On glaciers, secure it so that you won't lose it in the event of a crevasse fall.
|
|
|
|
|
adamtd
Mar 31, 2005, 3:50 PM
Post #14 of 14
(4855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 187
|
Try aressting a fall, losing your axe in some hard snow, and then try arressting again, this time without an axe.... always use a leash, it doesn't have to be short or a specific length, but you can't lose your axe (and it happens a lot more than you think).
|
|
|
|
|
|
