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laplaya
Sep 6, 2001, 4:47 PM
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I am interested in any home-spun gear inovations that climbers out there are using. please post or private message me about any trad gear that you have come up with, are using, or want to come up with (see a need for, but nothing available) I am curious and think that there are many things that haven't been thought up yet or things that have, but are not in stores. I am also interested in paterns people might have for making gear.
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jsm280
Sep 11, 2001, 4:46 AM
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Trust your life to gear you love.
Most homeade gear is not not anything I would feel good falling on. I would not suggest making your own gear, unless you are qualified and have it tested before use. Don't take a drawing or sketch and widdle some something which most likley won't save your life during a fall.
Now let's talk about placement of gear.....
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laplaya
Sep 11, 2001, 6:24 AM
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Of course, JSM. I'm sure that we all agree with you completly. and someone should have told Ray Jardine the same thing when he was climbing in the seventys with Friends that he developed, before they went on sale on the public market. and someone should have definately told that to climbers who were using machine nuts long before BD came out with hexes, because after all, no protection at all is far better then pro that hasn't been provin by a bunch of engineeers, right? Especially since each store bought piece that is placed is 100% fail-safe every time you place it. It would be completely stupid for anyone to ever design and try to use anything that hasnt been used before. I mean, really, we were born with all of the climbing gear that God wanted us to have, right? Personally, I think that because they will sell a piece of gear in a store doesnt make it a safe piece of gear that I will trust (try auto-locking biners... one came open while a friend of mine was belaying my brother... good call on that one). I also doont think precidence makes a very good guide (many gyms will only alow belayers to use ATC's. I think that an eight can be a much better tool when used properly). Bottom line is, I must test any piece of gear or method that I will use in climbing personally, because I donot trust ANY gear sight unseen. I have seen to many failures with "legit" equipment to think that it is far better then what the next genious vwho comes along will introduce to the sport.
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jsm280
Sep 14, 2001, 6:40 PM
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If you have the qualifcations as Ray Jardine who was an aerospace engineer, take off. I just don't think every yahooo should be carving gear. If you do carve some gear test it as I said. I am sure Ray and the others who are still alive tested first, and if you read about Ray's testing he had a few.. close calls before he perfected his creation. I am not saying don't make stuff, just make sure about what you are getting into. This is why I send a HUGE CAUTION to anyone who tries to make their own pro, for the most part 95% people are not capable of creating such devices.
I also mentioned gear placement or as before "Now let's talk about placement of gear".
No matter how good the pro is, bad placement=big fall or injury/death.
I understand everything starts as a prototype. I work as an inventor and currently hold 7 patents with 14 other pending or in the proccess. I also know some of the other pro out there, big bro for example was created for a college project and is now on the market. I currently climb on some pro/aid I have created and it works great. I would never give the design out, that would put me liable for that design. The pro which is on the market currently is not full proof, it has passed several test before being apporved and is left to the user for proper use.
Over all just be safe.
.
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talons05
Sep 14, 2001, 6:57 PM
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I agree, JSM, unless you are qualified as an engineer, able to deal with things such as tolerances, shear forces, material properties, etc., you shouldn't be making your own gear. What you could do, is come up with an idea of how something might work, or of a type of gear that might work for a particular placement, and take it to an engineer with data on how much force and in what directions it needs to sustain. Then they can make you a "safe" model of your idea. As for ideas of my own, I am with JSM on the point that I would be liable for any design I gave out. Also, why would I give you my ideas? How am I to know that you wouldn't take my designs, and the designs of others you are asking for, and go to make profit from them for yourself. No thanks.
AW
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skupdogg
Oct 29, 2001, 11:01 AM
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i invented a bomber piece of trad gear. it's what i call "psychological" pro. it consists of a standard carabiner and a 4" piece of duct tape. when you feel nervous, simply slap that 'biner on the wall with the duct tape, climb above it, and feel comforted when you look down and see that there's pro not far below you!
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dustinap
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Nov 4, 2001, 11:00 PM
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I think it's pretty dumb to think unless you are as qualifed as Ray, you shouldn't be making gear.
I can't say I'd suggest everyone make their own camming units, but...
Chouinard didn't have any degrees to the best of my knowledge, and he was carving peetons at the age of 18 on an anvil. People bought his gear, his gear was safe.
I have 10 old chouinard carabiners from late 70 or very early 80's, they're light and the gate opens smoothly.
things like hexes and bongs aren't to hard to make, really! I'd suggest doing a dorp test on it first.
if you feel confident in your abilities to make stuff, and can commit on it, why not try it? Maybe soemone will see your stuff and buy it?
I'm sure when people saw the first big bro they thought he was crazy. Yes the inventor was an engineer, but hey.
When you see gear in a shop, because it was made by a team of "qualified people." doesn't necessarily mean it is safe now does it?
I think the hardest part about making your own gear is not having the proper tools to do it with. If you have a welder and want to try making a funky looking chock or something, go ahead. People weld their trucks together in their garage, and it holds them up, right?
Especially things like making your own sewn slings, if you know how to bar tack it properly, go ahead and try it, I'd test it, and back it up, but if you can do it, why not safe alittle money ?
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rrrADAM
Nov 4, 2001, 11:05 PM
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I personally agree about making your own gear, but remember, the people who took a file to the threads in machinests nuts, tied a little cord to them, and bamm, they had 'nuts'. They were no engineers. Only creative thinkers.
rrrADAM
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decked
Nov 5, 2001, 1:39 AM
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wellll I'm a blacksmith i know a bit about heat treat tempering and so on.I would trust my gear but no way am I going to put my partner on it.Sometimes I think about making things but I just can't talk myself into it.
Vic
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sparky
Jan 12, 2003, 12:05 AM
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My boss used tent stakes and nuts from the hardware store, old guys scare me
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flying_dutchman
Jan 12, 2003, 1:03 AM
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i know an old dude who use to climb 20-25 years ago and he always tells me these stories of making his own gear and aiding with it etc. I wouldn't do that nowadays unless i truely knew what i was doing. Besides, would u trust a friends gear that he hammered together at home?
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mreardon
Jan 15, 2003, 1:19 AM
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Always create. Don't listen to the naysayers. Never risk another's life while testing. And always think outside the box while pushing the envelope.
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rockmx
Jan 15, 2003, 1:24 AM
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Yesss
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vram1974
Jan 27, 2003, 4:50 PM
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This is my favourite story of home-made gear.
Anyway, I've never made anything myself, but I've always been somewhat lacking in money, and often had to "make do". When I started trad, instead of Dyneema slings, I just cut up my top rope webbing and made water knots for runners. Often those would make pro where nothing else would!
I once forgot my cordalette at the bottom of a climb, and girth hitched all my nuts together to make one...
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frig
Jan 27, 2003, 5:35 PM
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Do not think....Consume, consume, consume.
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frig
Jan 27, 2003, 5:36 PM
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Do not think....Consume, consume, consume.
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texplorer
Jan 31, 2003, 2:18 AM
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Do you know if you file the teeth off your store bought cams they will have more holding power. Ray had to put teeth on the first cams cause he said people wouldn't buy them if he didn't, but they actually decrease surface area on the rock. I met a guy in the desert last year that still uses his first generation cams and even has some that are filed down since when friends first came out they didn't come in half sizes.
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texplorer
Feb 4, 2003, 5:56 AM
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Steve Hong once filed his shoes with cement and then ran over them with a car to get a shoe he could stick into thin cracks. Result: Tricks are for Kids
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uncle_big_green
Feb 4, 2003, 5:06 PM
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Many engineers can't find their way out of a paper bag and are about as creative as the aforementioned bag. If you've got an idea, build it, test it (not on yourself or anyone else) and then have an engineer check it out. One word of warning here: whatever you make may work several times, but it may fail the very next time (fatigue). That's one reason why you'd want an engineer to evaluate the design.
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dingus
Feb 4, 2003, 5:24 PM
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Quote:someone should have told Ray Jardine the same thing when he was climbing in the seventys with Friends that he developed, before they went on sale on the public market.
Hehe!
Someone should have told Greg Lowe you mean? You all do realize that Ray Jardine is not the inventor of spring loaded caming devices don't you? The story is that Greg showed Ray a few of the vast array of prototypes he had been working on for years (dozens). Shortly thereafter our enterprising aerospace engineer slightly modifyed the design, used them personally to hang dog cutting edge routes in Yosemite and didn't allow anyone else to use them until he basically decided to abandon high end climbing. Then he brought them to market.
Then he was sued by the Lowe clan.
Then they settled out of court for an undisclosed amount...
Interesting, eh?
Thus proving that in climbing engineering, maybe aerospace engineering and as we all know too well, in computer software engineering, there is only one "original" thought. Everything else is copied and modified.
And beware of homemade harnesses!
DMT
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