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krustyklimber
Jun 28, 2002, 6:58 PM
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I was recently looking at the Petzl website, and notice right up front on the Verticlal Sports page they have issued a warning about the mini and pro- traxions, not catching or holding the rope in certain situations.
One of these is as a far end hauler.
Please go to Petzls site and familarize your self with their warning, if you use either of these devices! It's here; http://www.petzl.com/petzl/statique/popup/EN/P51-en.htm
There is also a warning relating to the reverso.
Be safe and stay that way,
Jeff
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hunter
Jun 28, 2002, 7:06 PM
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Thanks Krusty,
I have a mini-traxion. Going to Petzls site now...
Hunter
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verticallaw
Jun 28, 2002, 7:08 PM
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wow dude thank for the heads up!
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justsendingits
Jun 29, 2002, 10:25 AM
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I just found that warning on the Petz web site,about 10 day's ago!!--I freaked!!!--Here is why,MY ROPE CAME OUT OF THE PRO-TRAX WHILE I WAS HAULING ON THE FIRST PITCH OF T-TRIP LAST YEAR!!!!!!--
Ok please return your seat to it's upright position!!!---How did this happen?--Not sure why the rope came out from the teeth,but I did not have a crab through the bottom of the pro trax.It says right on the directions to clip a biner DUH!!
I bought it at the climbing shop in the valley,a guy behind the counter said he never clips a crab on the bottom.But there is NOBODY to blame for that but MYSELF!!!--The bag hit the ground.!!--I had just hauled 2 pig's right before that and had used the pro trax on other multi pitch routes.
I thought at first the button pressed up against the wall,and the housing came open,but now that I have seen that Petz warning,I wonder?The belay was clean,(at least the hauling setup was).The pro trax was not hitting the rock,biners,or rotating.Eric Coomer(I think that was his name) was below me retro bolting(being the nice guy that he is)he told me that he had heard bad story's about the pro trax,told me to ditch it and get the CMI.
I had the pro-trax backed up with 6 mm. cord,but that did me no good being that the rope came out of the teeth of the pro-trax.Is there a way to back up the rope itself,while doing 1-1 hauling?If the teeth fail on any wall hauling device,can you use say a petz basic ascender,or somthing without teeth(like a prusik)to back it up?
Speaking of being backed up,I had the haul system on seperate anchors from the lead anchors,and I was roped in to the lead anchors.Is this a good practice to seperate the two,when anchors permit?
Hope this post has helped,it is kind of hard to admit to the climbing community that I made a mistake of not cliping the bottom of the pro trax,(I still will never buy one again)but it is my hope that this post will spark some information that may save someone's life!!!!! CHEERS RICH
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-06-29 08:13 ]
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duracellbunny
Jun 29, 2002, 11:15 AM
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Thanks for the information. I have a Reverso and I knew about this warning, but thank you though.
Climb safe and hard!!!!!
[ This Message was edited by: duracellbunny on 2002-06-29 04:17 ]
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justsendingits
Jun 29, 2002, 11:18 AM
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Check out the picture(by Philbox) of the 2-1 haul,on page 3 of the thread---Chongo's 2-1 haul ratchet.----Guess what's wrong with this picture?
Also PTPP,on your post on the same thread on 10/25/01---you have a link for the pro trax,the link is dead!!(wonder why?) Was there a picture of the trax?if so can you remember if it had a crab through the bottom?
And one more thing Pete, the picture's by Richard H. of the 2-1 at the top of the stroke and the bottom of the stroke,there is no crab in the bottom of the pro trax photo,I know it is common sense,but some people,like me, might skipp it thinking the button that sticks out will do just fine in keeping the houseing together.(I was used to the mini trax, which need not be cliped)Since this is a thread with a lot of hits,can you edit that post,and advise to clip a crab in the bottom of the pro trax? THANK you my 9/11 brother!!!!
R
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-06-29 08:14 ]
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justsendingits
Jun 29, 2002, 2:01 PM
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My question still stands. I would like to hear thoughts on backing up 1-1 haul(the rope itself) with device or knots,that are rope friendly if teeth on hauler fail?
Also, thoughts on the hauling system being on separate anchors,separate from the lead belay and all the other stuff.This can be done on Zodiac,when I was on it last year some belays had like 7 new bomber bolts and a couple old ones!!!(thnks Chris Mac.)
Maybe I should post this one on another thread or start a new one.There is info all over this aid forum,spread out,here and there,got to know where to find it.Needs to be more organized.
DR.PITON NEEDS HIS OWN FORUM!!!!!
safe passage R
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-06-29 08:14 ]
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passthepitonspete
Jun 29, 2002, 2:07 PM
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Holy frig, Rich! So what you're saying is,
"you were hauling with the ProTrax, you didn't hook it up right, it freaking failed, and your pig took the big plunge to the ground?!"
How far did it fall? What were the damages? Did you bail from the route?
Sheesh. There's been a lot of flying pigs in that area recently.....
Has anyone else experienced this problem with the Traxion?
Look, I have to tell you all,
I do not own a ProTraxion, and have no experience with it. I do not know how to operate it, either.
Yet I - Dr. Piton - have published a post endorsing its use as a holdling ratchet on a 2:1 Hauling Ratchet.
If there is a safety issue with the way the 2:1 is set up, then I need your help, my "9-11 Brother," and anyone else's help who knows anything about this damn thing.
Note: Richard was topping out on Zodiac the day I topped out on my solo of ZM, my 42nd birthday - September 11, 2001. It was he who shouted over, "Pete! Turn your radio on!" I thought it was a joke...
For your information, I have built the 2:1 using both a Wall Hauler and a Kong Block Roll as the holding ratchet, but have never used the ProTraxion or MiniTraxion.
One benefit of the 2:1 system is that when it is in use, it does back itself up.
If the holding ratchet were to fail, the Z-cord will back it up. Were the Z-cord to break, as it has done on me due to overuse, and me being too lazy to switch ends when I saw it starting to wear out, the Z-cord is backed up by the holding ratchet.
Still, this may be a serious design flaw in the 2:1 as shown!
Stay tuned!
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justsendingits
Jun 29, 2002, 2:24 PM
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I did not load the pro trax wrong,I had the rope loaded correctly,but I did not clipp the bottom hole on the Pro trax.
The pig fell 1 pitch!!
Hell yes I bailed!!!!
I would hazard a guess that not clipping the bottom of the pro trax,caused failure.Although I was told in the climbing shop,that clipping a crab was not necessary,I am to blame for not heeding directions.
Also, on my first haul, I hauled more than twice the weight of the pig that took the ride on the second haul,so It was not a failure due to weight.
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-06-29 09:07 ]
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atg200
Jun 29, 2002, 4:17 PM
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HOLY SHIT!!!!
I've hauled without clipping that bottom biner before too, *shudder*
Glad the bag didn't clean you right off the wall.
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justsendingits
Jun 29, 2002, 4:31 PM
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Dude!!!
I was tied into a separate anchor system!!!On an 11.mill. lead line,and daisyed in twice!!!
I bet there are a lot more people out there that have not been clipping the the bottom of the pro trax!!!
I met a few in the valley last year,one guy said that he has hauled with the pro trax all summer,without clipping the bottom!!!
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-06-30 17:23 ]
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fishypete
Jul 1, 2002, 12:50 PM
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On the Petzel site it says the problem is with the wider ropes not engaging the teeth in the very base of the curved cam.
How wide was the rope you were hauling with when the failure occurred???
Fishy.
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sauron
Jul 1, 2002, 1:24 PM
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justsendingits,
It doesn't matter what other people say.
If the instructions for the trax say to clip it with a biner, then clip it with a biner, regardless of what some climber shop or tons of climbers tell you.
The people who design these things, design them as they are, for a purpose.
Climbers who don't follow instructions, are dumb.
- d.
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spike
Jul 1, 2002, 5:45 PM
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The Petzl site shows the Mini Traxion works better with the Petzl Locking Oval carabiner to keep the Traxion straight and not kinked to one side. It looks like you have a problem when you use a Petzl Locking D carabiner.
Note: I have done 2 walls this year and on both I used the Pro-Traxion and didn't have a second carabiner through the bottom hole --- I was luck it didn't pop open! ! !
I am going to Yosemite Valley tonight to solo West Face Leaning Tower. I will use my Pro-Traxion with a Petzl Locking Oval and an extra locking carabiner at the bottom.
SPIKE
[ This Message was edited by: spike on 2002-07-01 10:47 ]
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billiebob
Jul 1, 2002, 8:10 PM
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Folks. Stop flipping out.
If you clip a biner through the bottom hole, the rope cannot come out without the housing breaking.
As to the cam failing to engage, this may be an issue. I recently body hauled (zoom!) to Heart ledge using a 13 mil 80 m rope with no trouble. I hauled 34 pitches that week with heavy bags. I love the protraxion. I did use a biner in the lower hole.
My guess is Justsendingits didn't close the housing until the button clicked, or the housing somehow pressed the button against the rock and the housing opened.
It would be easy to back this up with a Tiblock weighted with gear, but you'd lose the advantage of sucking up right to the protraxion when body hauling with a GriGri.
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smithclimber
Jul 1, 2002, 8:42 PM
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All I can say is:
I've always used a locking oval on the top of my ProTraxion and I've always used the extra biner in the bottom "becket" just like the instructions show.
I haven't had any problems hauling.
I'm amazed at hearing of the number of people who haven't been using the extra biner on the bottom. Do they simply throw the directions in the trash when they buy new gear or what? It's right there, clear as crystal, in the instructions to use both the oval shaped biner on the top and the extra biner in the becket on the bottom.
I don't mean to sound so harsh, but are some of you folks practicing Darwinism and trying to get yourselves killed?
Read people, READ!
At least now, hopefully, everyone will pay a little more attention. Be careful folks!
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punk
Jul 2, 2002, 11:04 PM
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What the big fuss using the Protraxion …for me it works flawlessly. I always make sure that the side that rotate facing me and away from the wall, and that I use ovals locking on all of my pulleys. This never happened to me
Coming to think of it you can clip the free end in Dr P 2:1 to the bottom of the Protraxion hole instead of the top biner of the 2 part ….and presto…problem solved b/c you got constant down pressure on the pulley that will keep it from swaying out of orientation Just like this
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philbox
Moderator
Jul 3, 2002, 2:31 AM
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The only thing is that with this solution you`ve just lost about 6 to 9 inches of stroke. The whole point of the good doctors better way is to eliminate inefficiencies in the system and losing that amount of upward stroke in the bottom pulley and rope grab is to me wasteful.
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punk
Jul 3, 2002, 2:59 AM
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you dont if you reverse the lenght the Pro Higher and the Pulley Lower
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-07-02 20:00 ]
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billcoe_
Jul 3, 2002, 3:38 AM
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It seems to me that Petzl could better get their sh+t together. When new gear comes out, it should be well tested and relatively foolproof. The Petzl link Krusty put down basically says don't use it on about about a 10.5 or bigger rope. Hmmm, which of us will now go to a 8.8 mil or 9 Mil to haul? Every time I've done that (oh and I have) I've wondered what it would be like to use it if rockfall or other damage should necessitate using the lead line as the haul rope.
Justsendingits: thanks for the honesty and sharing, good story, really makes my palms sweat just thinking about it - suppose a fella had 1 bag and was way up an overhanging route. Or worse, the pig greases the party 1000 feet underneath you. I've had the unfortunante privilage of hauling 3 bodys out (other parties), 2 I climbed up over and lowered off the cliff. The smell and sounds of falling bodies and cpr don't really leave you.
Never really cared for that aspect of our sport.
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justsendingits
Jul 25, 2002, 6:41 AM
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Just got back from the big ditch!!---I was told by the people in the mountain shop,and the summit hut in Glenwood springs,that the mini and the pro trax are not being shipped out due to some problem!!!!---Has anybody else heard this????
Also,talked to some local hardboys,they told me they use the pro trax all the time and never clip the bottom of the pro trax!!!!-----I warned them!!!!!!!
I was using a 10.5 mil. when I was hauling on T-trip
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justsendingits
Jul 27, 2002, 5:58 AM
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No beta huh? I guess I could contact Petz, and find out what is going on.
R
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