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New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point....
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alpinestar


Apr 18, 2005, 11:47 PM
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New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point....
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Hi

Looking to get me some G14s to replace my 2Fs which where crap on steep ice!!

I was looking to get some New Matic, so they could both fit my normal alpine boots, and my One Sports. But now i head that the New Matic ones dont climb ice as well as the Cramp-o-Matic ones :?:

I read on grivels website that the New Matic was a evolution of Cram-o-matic:
http://www.grivel.com/Products/tabella_binding.asp

So to me that sounds like the New Matic will be just as good as the Cramp-o-Matic on steep ice?

They can be set up for mono point, which is great but in which situation would you go for dual point??


cgailey


Apr 19, 2005, 12:00 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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I can tell you that the purchase of a newmatic on your boots is as good if not better than a step-in, and much more versatile. After owning both, I would never again buy a pair of full step in crampons. If fit correctly to the boots, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't climb steep ice just as well.

As far as the mono vs. dual frontpoints, it's more personal pref than anything, but many will argue for one or the other. My take: mono's are great on really hard ice, where a good purchase is not a concern, and for mixed stuff where the predictability/simplicity of a single point is beneficial. For more porous, or softer ice, as in many alpine situations (rime, some glacier ice) duals, and better yet, horizontal frontpoints have less of a chance of shearing. For the general Ice cragger and mixed climber, mono's will probably be the best bet.


anykineclimb


Apr 19, 2005, 12:17 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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I like new-matic style crampons. It gives some options of using boots that are not crampon compatible.

The feel just as secure, if not more than cramp-o-matics


alpinestar


Apr 19, 2005, 4:23 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
is as good if not better than a step-in, and much more versatile.

Exactly my thoughts, another case of someone trying to sell you something thay havent got a clue of. They had the cramp-o-matic in the store, I guess theu just could not be botherd to get the others.. :evil:

Orderd the New Matic ones...whoa Caucasus (Ushba) here we come 8^)


Partner tradman


Apr 19, 2005, 5:04 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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Crampomatic bindings are lighter and less bulky, making them easier to stow.

Newmatic bindings are slightly flexible, which means your foot will move very slightly in the binding, giving you less feedback about your placements, but this effect is so small that you probably won't even notice it unless you're climbing pretty hard (and by hard I mean difficult enough for the quality of very small edges to be an issue).

As for your boots, if a pair of boots is not designed to take crampons, shouldn't you really be thinking twice about wedging a crampon on it then expecting it to perform?


crag


Apr 19, 2005, 5:16 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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The fit of your crampons to your boots will depend on what style boot (welt) and what style crampon your trying to mate :wink: What comes first the boot or the crampon?

I purchase my boots first after which I know exactly what kind of 'poon I'm going to need along with what kind of binding. Except for my old SMC with Neoprene straps I never really had a problem of my crampons falling off.

Currently I have two pair of 'poons both from Grivel, a pair of Rambo Comp "M" and a pair of G12s. Both pair have the step in binding or Cramp-O-Matic. Either pair fits either pair of boots I own really well and required very little cobbling to achieve this.

If you purchase a pair of boots which does not have a sole intended for crampons doesn't mean you shouldn't shod them with 'poons it just means you better use the New-Classic or the New-Matic binding.

Rigid or flexible crampons will be decided by what kind of sole your boots have. As long as the rocker in the sole of a flexible boot is not too exaggerated a rigid pair of 'poons can go a long way in stiffing the platform up for steeper ice.

Regarding the mono vs. dual front points debate Id rather see it placed on the bottom of the list of things to prioritize but thats just my opinion. The great thing about climbing in general is the self discovery, the ability to formulate your own styles and yes, opinions.


alpinestar


Apr 19, 2005, 5:26 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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Well for some reason the Millet everest boots :

http://www.mtntools.com/...ages/mil_everest.jpg

Dosent have the weld infront, my old grivel 2fs suited fine, no problem, so the new ones should be just as fine?

For ice and lower climbs I have a pair of La Sportiva Karakorum:

http://www.grupohuellas.com/...ortiva-Karakorum.jpg

Wich has the weld for the cramp o matic.

But thanks for all the info :D


Partner tradman


Apr 19, 2005, 9:32 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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The Millet Everest boots don't have a crampon welt because they're high altitude boots, not technical climbing boots.

High altitude boots have a completely different fit and purpose to technical boots.


akclimber


Apr 19, 2005, 2:42 PM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
The Millet Everest boots don't have a crampon welt because they're high altitude boots, not technical climbing boots.

High altitude boots have a completely different fit and purpose to technical boots.

Eh, dood. I have a pair of the Millet Everst. They take the same step-in's as my other boots. Though I doubt I would attempt to climb waterfall ice in them...too heavy...

As for the OP, I would have just done step in or "crampomatic". The reason is: once they are on tight, they are not going anywhere.


cgailey


Apr 19, 2005, 3:01 PM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Newmatic bindings are slightly flexible, which means your foot will move very slightly in the binding, giving you less feedback about your placements, but this effect is so small that you probably won't even notice it unless you're climbing pretty hard (and by hard I mean difficult enough for the quality of very small edges to be an issue).

I have to disagree. If we are discussing the G14, the crampomatic and newmatic are the exact same thing, both semi-rigid, with the exception of the front attachment. They are both a two piece crampon with an adjustable center metal strap.

As far as the movement of the boot in the binding is concerned, I have experienced less with the newmatic than the crampomatic styles. The bail on the front of a crampomatic is never sized perfectly (width wise) to the front welt of your boot, therefore allowing the boot to shift side to side in the binding. This does not occur in a newmatic binding, or if it does, to a very small extent.

One of the other benefits of the newmatic is that you can pass the forward part of the center strap through only one of the retention pieces on the front part of the crampon to allow the boot, and your foot, to flex naturally on approaches and areas where you don't need the rigidity of the crampon (i.e. glacier travel). A crampomatic would pop off in this application.

IMHO the only application is see a full step in binding being useful in is on tele boots. The newmatic is superior in all other applications.


Partner tradman


Apr 20, 2005, 3:34 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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I can't believe I'm actually going to grace this post with a response, but I'm frankly gobsmacked and feel the need to set you straight, for the sake of those reading who might take your advice.

In reply to:
If we are discussing the G14, the crampomatic and newmatic are the exact same thing

No, they're not the same thing. They are two distinct binding methods, each with its own advantages and disadvantages. You should look them up before shooting your mouth off any further.

In reply to:
A crampomatic would pop off in this application.

What, you think that step-ins pop off if you walk in them? Have you ever actually worn crampons? People's safety depends on the advice they recieve here. If you've never used a piece of equipment - and it certainly seems you've never used crampons - please don't try to give advice on it.

If you want to continue this conversation in the same vein - by sniping at my advice without offering anything useful or informed of your own - I think it would be more appropriate for you to do so via PM.

Thanks.


alpinestar


Apr 28, 2005, 12:28 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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So just got the G14 New Matic in the door yesterday.
Fitted them to both my boots to illustrate.

http://www.sloper.dk/...s/userpics/boots.jpg

So now I have to decide wich to wear! :D

M


Partner tradman


Apr 28, 2005, 1:19 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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Nice!

Don't forget your anti-balling plates! It may have been the boots I used them with, but my G14s balled like crazy before I got the plates!


alpinestar


Apr 28, 2005, 2:24 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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Yes the anti-balling plates was included in the price, not leaving home with out them, did that once, never again!!
They where even cheaper then I expected because they are a old model, new model has changed a bit in the front:

http://www.grivel.com/...glio/varianti/20.jpg

Plus the anti bailing is the old black style on mine.

M


cgailey


Apr 28, 2005, 2:26 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I can't believe I'm actually going to grace this post with a response, but I'm frankly gobsmacked and feel the need to set you straight, for the sake of those reading who might take your advice.

In reply to:
If we are discussing the G14, the crampomatic and newmatic are the exact same thing

No, they're not the same thing. They are two distinct binding methods, each with its own advantages and disadvantages. You should look them up before shooting your mouth off any further.

In reply to:
A crampomatic would pop off in this application.

What, you think that step-ins pop off if you walk in them? Have you ever actually worn crampons? People's safety depends on the advice they recieve here. If you've never used a piece of equipment - and it certainly seems you've never used crampons - please don't try to give advice on it.

If you want to continue this conversation in the same vein - by sniping at my advice without offering anything useful or informed of your own - I think it would be more appropriate for you to do so via PM.

Thanks.

You get the big pile of poo for this one...

If you would have read my post thoroughly without getting your panties in a bundle, you would have nothing to disagree with me on.

First of all, I wasn't sniping at your advice, I was offering a different opinion; if you can't handle that, don't post here anymore...

Second, your condescending choice of words regarding my experience with crampons is laughable and causes me to wonder if you have any idea what issue I was addressing. I suggest you reread my post and rethink your reply...if you need clarification, PM me...I don't want to offend you any more :roll:


Partner tradman


Apr 28, 2005, 3:16 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Plus the anti bailing is the old black style on mine.

Yeah, I think I preferred those actually. The new one has a flexible latex bump on the underside which pops inside-out when you step on it, then pops back out when you raise your foot, flicking the snow off.

At least that's the idea. In practice, slush and snow can get inside the bump and freeze, which stops them working as well. Not terrible, but a touch irritating.


Partner tradman


Apr 28, 2005, 3:18 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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Oh yeah and cgailey, didn't I ask you to PM me instead of trying to start a flame war here? I've re-read your post and it's still rubbish. We can see that you're upset, but please try to stay on-topic.

Thanks.


cgailey


Apr 28, 2005, 10:26 AM
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Re: New Matic vs Cramp-o-Matic and Two point vs mono point.. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Oh yeah and cgailey, didn't I ask you to PM me instead of trying to start a flame war here? I've re-read your post and it's still rubbish. We can see that you're upset, but please try to stay on-topic.

Thanks.

You know, I can spell it out for you if you....it may be easier to understand...and I am staying on topic.

Who's the one who started the flame war?

In reply to:
the crampomatic and newmatic are the exact same thing, both semi-rigid, with the exception of the front attachment. They are both a two piece crampon with an adjustable center metal strap.

Hmmm...amazing.....that's pretty hard to understand....

In reply to:
One of the other benefits of the newmatic is that you can pass the forward part of the center strap through only one of the retention pieces on the front part of the crampon to allow the boot, and your foot, to flex naturally on approaches and areas where you don't need the rigidity of the crampon (i.e. glacier travel). A crampomatic would pop off in this application.

Crampomatics will come off if you use them in the described application on a flexible boot...don't believe me, try it!

Please stop taking these statements out of context to satisfy your little vindictive agenda....


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