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rickyrocket31
May 29, 2002, 6:44 PM
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I want to know your opinion about the Zen slippers. Do you like them, what about the Fusion sole?
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jdcox_9
May 29, 2002, 7:20 PM
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I have tried Zen's once. I thought they were a very nice shoe, and pretty comfortable for a sporty type shoe. They got some extra padding on the top. Personally, I'm more of a lace up kinda guy, cuz I like to be able to precisely control the fit of my shoes, but if I ever got a pair of slippers or velcro, i'd probably get Zens.
My roommate has them, he seems to like them
His name is Dynamic, drop him a PM if you have any specific questions.
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climberchic
May 29, 2002, 7:25 PM
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I love mine (although they are a little roomy in the heel. Fusion rubber sux, so it's best to not even bother and get them immediatley resoled with C4.
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doki
Jul 2, 2002, 2:57 PM
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I love mine too its good for smearing, climberchic is right resoled it w/ c4. What about boreal pyros coz' im planning to get one of those.
P.S. Be borealistic men!!!!
DOKI
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woodse
Jul 2, 2002, 3:07 PM
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The rubber sucks the shoes are great.
woodsE
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nikegirl
Jul 2, 2002, 3:13 PM
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love the shoes...hate the soles!!!
hate the soles!!
I've had them sanded down, to get a new sole on them
I love the fit, the access!!!
just hated the soles.
I'll be sending them in, to resole.
Not with the original rubber, that is for SURE!!
love my new LOLA's
freeclimbers!!
uh huh!!!!
T
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phylp
Jul 2, 2002, 4:16 PM
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Love the shoes. Immediately had them resoled with C4. My husband (fairly narrow foot) also got a pair and likes them a lot.
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pir8penguin
Jul 2, 2002, 8:32 PM
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hmm...sounds like something i would do...buy a shoe and then get it directly resoled!
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beyond_gravity
Jul 2, 2002, 9:32 PM
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Why would you buy them and then get them resoled? the thing thats attrictive about the zen (at least for me) is it's low price tag! Why not just get a simular shoes then, like the Anasazi Velcro or Katana or Dos Equis is your just gonna spend the $$$ to get them resoled?
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crackaddict
Jul 2, 2002, 10:19 PM
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Good shoe.
Don't wear them to Indian Creek without taping up the velcro. The stitches on the outer tabs will wearout quickly and those tabs will pull right off. I guess this goes for all sandstone.
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snapier
Jul 2, 2002, 10:51 PM
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You might already know this, but if you're going to buy Boreal's - buy them from Barrabes (http://www.barrabes.com)
I was kind of scared ordering them from Spain and all, but shipping was only $10 for my Ace's. The best part was that my shoes arrived in about 4 days - incredible!!! Highly recommended (I got a pair of shoes that sells for $150 in the US for $75 including shipping)
Would def order from them again...
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climbsomething
Jul 2, 2002, 11:02 PM
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I tried the Zen at a demo, and found it pretty comfy, BUT yes, the Boreal rubber sucks! I am a confirmed Stealth C4 disciple. Assuming you're picking up the Zens from a euro.com, even with a resole it should only be ~$100 US, which is still a steal.
To recap: Zen good, Fusion rubber bad, C4 rubber good... Zen w/C4 rubber = excellent!
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betaflash
Jul 3, 2002, 12:48 AM
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I love the fit of my Zens! The rubber, as you probably already have found out, has something to be desired. I've chosen to keep the orig rubber on them until they merit a resole. The fusion is a hard rubber which works okay on sandstone, breccia and quartz monzonite. ( in my experience ) I had not much fun leading a granite slab at Suicide Rock in them not too long ago! Barrabes, the web site, makes these shoes a steal, despite the soles. Definately, try them on at a local shop for fit first, though.
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orngave
Jul 3, 2002, 1:13 AM
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No Crap, I Think that is a waste of money to have them directly resoled, To use that old father cliche, do I look like I am made of money? The rubber is good enough to leave on till it warrents a resole. I am not a good enough climber to say that it sucks.
E.B.
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natec
Jul 3, 2002, 1:15 AM
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I'm just posting this for the sake of argument not to invalidate anyone's point.
The "scientific" evidence has proven through friction tests on various forms of rock at various angles with a constant ambient temperature, that the differences between climbing rubbers is negligible.
I recently bought a pair of Boreal Aces, and was quite skeptical about the rubber because of so much negative feedback I had gotten about it. Before buying the Aces, which I don't have the money to resole, I was a devoted c4 user. I had all of my previous shoes resoled with C4.
I haven't found a difference in the rubber. As a matter of fact I think the excellent fit of my Aces makes them even stickier.
John Bachar stated that as soon as your shoes step in the dirt all rubber is equal. I agree with him.
If the Zen is the perfect glove fit for your feet, go for it. Do not let rubber be a big hangup. Fit is what makes the difference.
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rickyrocket31
Jul 3, 2002, 2:38 AM
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Thank you guys!
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pir8penguin
Jul 3, 2002, 4:14 AM
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now that i'm interested in them...
i've checked barrabes and they ship to us for more than $20, or sportextreme for half that i think (but a little more on the shoes)
is their a shipping option on barrabes i'm missing?
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snapier
Jul 3, 2002, 6:29 AM
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hmmm....i dunno...i just did the standard shipping and it only cost me $10...i live in philly
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pir8penguin
Jul 3, 2002, 11:18 AM
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that's strange. there weren't any options for me...i live in raleigh (nc). i just added to the basket, and signed in. shipping was $24.
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orngave
Jul 3, 2002, 1:24 PM
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i just ordered the zen's day before yesterday, and mine was only 14 bucks.
E.B.
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morganicclimbing
Jul 3, 2002, 1:44 PM
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I love them! I have had them for about 6 months. I love the rubber better than the 5.10 spires which were my old ones so I only have the two to compare. www.sportextreme.com is where I got mine. Highly recommended but I can tell I'm in the minority with the rubber. Lance.
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miagi
Jul 3, 2002, 2:22 PM
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Some people believe that they must have the best of everything to preform good. I must admit, C4 is sticky and I do like it, but vibram, fusion 3, and any other rubber still serves its purpose. Amazing climbers still do amazing things with rubber other than C4. Sometimes it's a mental thing
I have had the zens for about 3 months now and I love them. The only downside is the roomy heal. Heal hooks seem to slip a litte with that pocket of open space in the back.
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climberchic
Jul 3, 2002, 2:53 PM
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C4 rubber IS different.
No, really....it is.
Race cars need a durable rubber will hug the road at high speeds. To do this, it needs to be durable, super sticky and have superior friction. Stealth C4 is a patented rubber that uses the exact same compound that is used on the tires of race cars.
natec~Where did you get your "scientific evidence" from?
I will admit though...for the novice climber, it really doesn't make a difference how sticky the stuff is (unless you're on slabs). Most of the footholds will be larger and not necessitate sticky friction. So if you don't notice a diffence, don't waste your money buying new rubber when the rubber you have will be perfectly fine until it is time for a resole. It might even make a great beginner shoe. By the time you do need to get them resoled, your technique and strength may even be built up enough by using the lesser friction rubber.
However, once you get into climbing overhangings and super crimpy routes with tiny footholds, you will notice the difference between the two. Oh yeah, and that 45 degree angle slab may make you a believer as well.
Disclaimer: This is all personal experience and opinion. I would calim it as fact if it were not for the fact that crackaddict climbs sick hard in the Zens WITH the original rubber and says he doesn't notice the difference. Oh, and those silly guys of yesteryear that used to climb at the level I'm at in their hiking boots.
ah, well. To each his own...
[ This Message was edited by: climberchic on 2002-07-03 10:30 ]
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natec
Jul 3, 2002, 5:46 PM
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Climberchic,
This is from a test done on the five major rubbers by climbing magazine in 1994.
No. 147 Sept 15- Nov 1 1994.
C4, Boreal fusion (the original formula), Vibram xsv (used by sportiva), vibram grip, scarpa megabyte were all tested.
Boreal Fusion is the only rubber that has been improved since this test all other
formulas remained the same.
And C4 rubber was not developed from the tire compounds of race cars. It was an attempt to rip off Boreal rubber, who was in fact the first company to come out with truly sticky rubber. A mistake was made producing the second batch of Five Ten rubber which happened to make it a better compound than the original rubber. C4 is just a minor change in the oringinal two formulas.
The author's conclusion: "After having tugged, chewed, prodded, smeared on all the rubbers and especially after examining the field-test results, it isn't going to make a damn bit of difference what rubber I use."
I have included all of this because I think its important as climbers that we know what is truly on our shoes. It's all a head game and Charles Cole of 5.10 has us all convinced his stuff is better. I am having a hard time shaking the idea that Fusion3 is not as good as C4, but the fit and feel of my new shoes is really helping.
I cannot comment on c5 or Stealth HF rubber. These compounds should not be of major concern though, they are only featured on a few models of 5.10 shoes.
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climberchic
Jul 3, 2002, 8:02 PM
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Awesome, natec. Thanks for backing up the claim so well.
But, just as you said:
Quote:
The author's conclusion: "After having tugged, chewed, prodded, smeared on all the rubbers and especially after examining the field-test results, it isn't going to make a damn bit of difference what rubber I use."
He did a lot of field testing on the rubber, but in the end, it was the author's opinion, not scientific evidence (just as my previous posts are my opinion, not fact).
Also, as I said before, a friend of mine climbs woderfully in the Boreal rubber which blows my theory out of the water. HAve you tried the two rubbers on different rock (granite, limestone, sandstone, etc.) or plastic and on different climbs (overhangs, slabs, vertical)? If so, what do you think of the difference?
~Erica
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