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tallnik
Apr 24, 2005, 5:59 PM
Post #26 of 54
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Registered: Apr 18, 2004
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ALL time awd eats up gas when you don't need the extra push though.... That would be my only criticism of the Syncro. However, does anyone know if they make a Syncro VW that's not full time AWD. Example of Fulltime eatin more gas: friends Subie forestor gets shittier milage than her Dad's Land Cruiser (when in 2wd), both approxamately the same age. Obviously the Subie gets better milage than the Land Cruiser when it's in 4wd.
Yay Westies!
Nik
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camhead
Apr 24, 2005, 6:38 PM
Post #27 of 54
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When I used to guide tour groups years ago, the company I worked for had a 15-passenger Econoline van with a 4x4 lift modification. I drove it on some pretty tough jeep trails, and it could go anywhere a comparable 4x4 truck could go. The only thing holding it back was the long wheel base.
It could have easily been altered to live out of, and had tons of room for two or even three people to sleep and travel comfortably. Also, it got much better gas mileage than a full sized pickup or SUV, like around 20mpg if I remember right.
A big burley step up from Westies, but much easier and economical to live out of than a truck.
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altelis
Apr 24, 2005, 6:41 PM
Post #28 of 54
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here is my suggestion-get a 4X4 deisel pickup with a nice big (tall) cap....then pull some modifications:
1) time for the hammer and nails-there are a hundred and one ways to modify the back of a pickup for living out of....draw up some plans and go with it....
2)make sure you get mesh screens and windows in your cap-hot buggy summer nights are much nicer with open mesh windows!
3) set up a normal three pronged outlet in the back, as well as putting in a decent dome light that doesn't require the headlights to be on to use
4) this is the kicker-so diesel is expensive and gas mileage isn't great....but there is a solution, especially with all the bed-room (ha! get it...?) a griesel kit (http://www.greasel.com/)...you can almost always find free vegitable oil, and if not, then you won't mind filling up your diesel tank when you've been driving the last month for free!
5) with the extra tank in the back, depending on how big the bed of your truck is, you can always get a roof rack and a yakima box or something for extra storage....
i think this setup is ultimately the cheapest, easiest to drive and maneuver and is probably the most ruff and ready for pain in the ass snow and dirt roads....
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tallnik
Apr 24, 2005, 6:50 PM
Post #29 of 54
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but diesel gets way better milage than gas. And the difference is price is relatively minimal.
Cheers,
Nik
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twdirty
Apr 24, 2005, 7:10 PM
Post #30 of 54
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Registered: Dec 17, 2004
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It's all about the older 4WD Toyota Vans. My buddy used to have one and we took it everywhere. We would fit six surfboards and all our gear inside, two bikes on the back and snowboards and more surfboards on top. They can take sketchy roads and the gas mileage isn't all that bad. The seats also fold down and are plenty big to sleep on. You can get these for a lot less than those Behemoths people have been posting pics of.
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zetedog
Apr 24, 2005, 7:41 PM
Post #31 of 54
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Registered: Aug 20, 2002
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Define "Living" out of your vehicle. If you are talking about something to actually sleep in, I have tried conversion van, truck with topper and minivan. See below.
Regardless, the 4x4 option is something you need to really think about, I have had it before, and have now dropped it from my vehicles. It was really only helpful when it was snowing out, and the lowered gas mileage wasn't worth it. I found that 90% of my trips were taking me placed that I could have gotten in a civic, and out of the other 10%, most of the time the ground clearance of my vehicles was the deciding factor. Only once in Canada did I use my 4x4 for travel in a non-snowy area.
Vehicles I've owned for road tripped, in the order I've owned them:
90 westy pop-top (co-owned with my cousin and his roommate), water storage, LPG stove and fridge, shower thingy on the back. HWY MPG was around 20. Good for 3 people, 4 tight (Beds are narrow)
Pros: living space was great, nice to be able to pull out the sofa and crash, or pull into a parking lot and cook dinner. If it got too cold, could just turn on the engine to warm things up.
Cons: death trap in the snow, road trip funk immediately, especially if you cooked inside on the 1st day or two. Although big, storage was an issue as things were always in the living area of the van, and it always seemed I was rearranging to do a different task. By the time you get 4 guys, gear, water, etc, the engine was underpowered. Had to use premium in the mountains. Was always tinkering with the mechanical aspects of this thing. If you’re not that inclined: good luck finding a service shop outside of CA. Had two VW shops in CO turn me down, finally found local guys to do a head gasket job.
'95 4x4 Chevy S10 extended cab with topper and loft bed, added fresh water tank, pump shower, slide out cooking shelf, many other extras. Was my only vehicle for 5 years. HWY MPG 20ish. Good Travel for 2
Pros: did have 4x4 with was good around ski resorts, decent storage with things out of the way, and the separate sleeping area kept the road trip funk out of the cabin for trips under 5 days.
Cons: Sucked when it was raining (loud and you had to go outside) or cold out. I'm 6'2", and changing close was like playing twister with my self. Couldn't sit up straight in the back. I did have a raised topper, but it wasn't enough. Storage was in the back, so tough to get to things when driving. Never felt that my stuff in the topper was really secure.
mid 90's Sportsmobile Regular body Chevy van, pop-top. (had the RB-50 floorplan). 4x4, pretty much loaded, generator, solar panels, hot water.
Bought used for 45K with my Sister and her husband, who are military, they lived in military housing, and deducted interest payments on this as their mortgage. Sold my share to them, they still own it. Never cleared 20 MPG on the HWY. Travels/sleeps 4 People in a kick-ass fashion.
Pros: If you are actually living out of something, this is it. I spent 4 months in it with the wife, never felt cramped. Went skiing in Tahoe several times, never had problems getting around. It had a furnace, so we slept in it and saved money for lift tickets. Cooking, showering, storage: All Good. Even has a portipotti. My sister's family of 4 spends about a month in it every summer, and never complains. Will probably buy one for myself eventually.
Cons: $$$, and not too easy on the gas mileage. Campgrounds always wanted me to go (and pay) for an RV site, even though I didn't need hookups. Lots of arguments, but the thing was more or less self contained. Depending on what breaks, service may be hard to find.
2004 Dodge Caravan, long body. V-6, mostly base model with the captain’s chairs in the mid, bench in the back, all removable. HWY mpg 25+. My family's main vehicle (wife, 2-year old, and mother in-law)
My camping set up: take out reach bench, replace with loft. Fold down captain chairs to sleep (I use a Coleman full size air mattress). In this mode, carries 4, sleeps 2 (well 3, but my daughter doesn't take up much space). I have fitted blackout curtains for the back windows and screens for the pop-open back windows.
Pros: Cheap. Bought new it last year as the "stow-n-go" 2005 models were coming out, paid less than 16K for it. Comfortable space, easy to drive, good gas mileage. Decent clearance. Good storage. Never had any winter travel problems. Slept in it on one ski trip, had to run engine to warm things up. Low-profile: slept in places that I was kicked out of with my truck/sportmobile. Nobody seems threatened by a mini-van. Caravans will run forever (we have four in my extended family with better than 200K on them, but so will any vehicle if you take care of it), and if you have a problem, they are serviceable anywhere.
Cons: no water storage. Can't stand up in it, but you feel like you should be able to. Ventilation a problem in the summer. I fitted mosquito netting to be able to open up the tailgate, but you lose your low-profile status this way.
The last option which I have done, but not owned is a travel trailer. Went on a fishing trip in WVA, w/ a mid 80's Bronco towing a non-pop up camper. Left the camper at the campsite and actually had to use the 4x4 to get to some places. Was pretty nice, but MPG sucked and you have to pay for both and SUV and a Trailer. Couldn't imagine driving in the snow, either.
If I had to do it over again, I would have skipped the Truck and gone straight to the minivan, and would have probably saved myself some money. Some of my friends are more image conscience than I am (understandable, I have a wife and a kid, they don't), and love to make comments. One guy promised to never complain again after a Seneca trip in which went from rain to snow over night, and we were cozy in my van.
Todd
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arostecrux
Apr 24, 2005, 9:36 PM
Post #32 of 54
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Registered: Oct 8, 2002
Posts: 158
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ISUZU TROOPER -- no kidding, made in Japan (mine has never not started and its 15 years old!) it will seat 5 + a crap load of gear. A '90 Trooper will have about 21 mpg city and if you cruise the highway at 60 it will give you 25 or 27 depending. It is awesome offroad, great 4wd system and the bottom line -- it has a lower resale value than any of these other expensive used cars on this thread. I've gone everywhere with mine, the 4banger is amust (lasts longer) and a 5 speed too. YOu can still find them with about 100K miles for about 2k....go after it.
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solarain
Apr 24, 2005, 10:46 PM
Post #33 of 54
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Registered: Apr 4, 2004
Posts: 14
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Although the Syncros are apppealing, I have driven the Syncro and have owned regular Westfalias for years (many spent living out of them, very comfortably!) and for the price, the syncros seem to be overrated. I can go anywhere in my westy, Ive taken her up countless nasty logging roads, both summer and winter, and I live in the Canadian Rockies! All you need is a good set of tires and some backroads savy and the westy will go anywhere you need to go. There the ultimate road trip vehicle, so important when the journey to the crag is just as much fun as the climbs at the end. They have amazing amounts of storage space, and they arent bad on gas considering youre pulling your home around. I have seen one westy with a small dirt bike strapped to the front, now thats a good set up! Incidently, I have a Toyota 4x4 pickup and the van has the same clearance as the truck!
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boulderinemt
Apr 24, 2005, 11:18 PM
Post #34 of 54
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Registered: Feb 9, 2003
Posts: 282
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i would recommend what i have...a dodge ram 2500 with the cummins..its a 97, long box 4x4 with a stick shift. it gets roughly 20-25 mpg. then all i did was build a loft kit in the back out of 27 dollars of 2x4s and a couple pieces of scrap plywood. a queen size matress fits wonderfully in there. you can built a shelf for cooking on the lip that the topper makes with the bed. and underneath this loft kit, you can easily slip six rubbermaid containers full of gear. i just got mine finished today, and i am very happy with it. a thule rack on top of the topper would be a good idea if you like to bike and paddle while on the road. im very happy with how mine turned out, and if you were interested we could get you a drawing of some kind.
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treenail
Apr 25, 2005, 3:02 PM
Post #35 of 54
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Registered: Jan 20, 2002
Posts: 68
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The Dodge Sprinter van is interesting. There is a company in Germany that does 4WD conversions. It looks like THE home on the road to me.
http://www.iglhaut-allrad.de/
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michhiker
Apr 25, 2005, 3:20 PM
Post #36 of 54
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Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 120
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Land Rover Discovery
Go anywhere, do anything, in the lap of luxury the whole time :-)
---MH
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climb9876
Apr 25, 2005, 3:43 PM
Post #38 of 54
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 15
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Check out
http://www.unicat.net/en/intro.html
and
http://www.langerundbock.de/
For the ultimate unimog based campers, fun to dream about.
As far as this thread goes, I've been shopping for a good daily driver/weekend sleeper for a while. I'm leaning towards a Toyota Tacoma with a cap. I've looked at the VW TDI wagons, fantastic mileage but a little on the small side for two. I've also checked out the Subaru forester, again great mileage but tight on the space.
just my $.02
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tallnik
Apr 26, 2005, 12:32 AM
Post #39 of 54
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Registered: Apr 18, 2004
Posts: 595
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If you want to pick up a pre-96(?) edition VW Passat wagon, they're a lot roomier than the newer ones. I drove a '93, and it was soo nice. The only thing that went wrong on that thing was that a window fell out of sleeve once (annoying but not serious, as it fell into the door), and the door handle came off once. Then in 2003 some asshole sideswiped my father while he was driving it. That was the end of that car... 10 yrs, nothing major on it wrong... can't complain about it. And the mileage was phenomenal.
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cjstudent
Apr 26, 2005, 12:45 AM
Post #40 of 54
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Registered: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 369
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In reply to: Land Rover Discovery
Go anywhere, do anything, in the lap of luxury the whole time :-)
---MH
Yea right.
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cjstudent
Apr 26, 2005, 12:52 AM
Post #41 of 54
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Registered: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 369
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If you are wanting to live out of it for a long time you will want a van or a huge truck. We have a F250 Diesel long bed...it makes a good house.
For your general climbers vehicle...you can't beat a Toyota 4Runner or a Jeep Cherokee. I've got a Cherokee and a Wrangler...and am loving the Jeep thing. I even drove my Wrangler from NC to Utah, to Wyoming, and back to NC last summer on my road trip.
Slap a small lift on any Jeep vehicle and you have more go-anywhere than the average person would need to get remote trailheads.
Pass on anything that says "Land Rover" unless it is a Defender Model, like the D90 or D110. Discovery's and Range Rovers are over-priced...and if you try and take it somewhere remote, more than likely you will get pulled out by a Jeep anyways.
And for the love of all things that are holy in rockclimbing...people learn to use links!
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tattooed_climber
Apr 26, 2005, 12:53 AM
Post #42 of 54
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Registered: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 4838
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point one: BUY A TOYOTA....they run forever..
point two: BUY AN 80's MODEL....easier/cheaper to get parts, and easier to fix yourself...as well overall the vehicle is cheaper....
point three(for dirtbagging): you have 3 basic choices...4RUNNER (4wd), TERCEL (4wd) or whatever the name those vans are (also come in 4wd)
point four (if possible): BUY DIESEL IF YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (95% of used japanese imports are Diesel) rare rare in North American models...down side is 90% are RIGHTHAND DRIVE, but some don't have a prob with that.
my .02$
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flying_dutchman
Apr 26, 2005, 1:19 AM
Post #43 of 54
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Registered: Nov 20, 2002
Posts: 708
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I bought a uesd jeep lib ~ just enough room in the back for me to lie down straight (im 5'10"), still room for gear and the thing is smooth off road and still gets decent milage, low 20's anyhow. Only wish it was a 6 speed stick but i'd have had to buy a brand new one then. Just need to lift it 2-3" and get some bigger tires when i can find the money.
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scuclimber
Apr 26, 2005, 1:44 AM
Post #46 of 54
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Posts: 1007
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In reply to: I bought a uesd jeep lib ~ just enough room in the back for me to lie down straight (im 5'10"), still room for gear and the thing is smooth off road and still gets decent milage, low 20's anyhow. Only wish it was a 6 speed stick but i'd have had to buy a brand new one then. Just need to lift it 2-3" and get some bigger tires when i can find the money.
As I mentioned before... Liberty Diesel: http://www.autobytel.com/...m/article_id_int/141
A little smaller than most of the other vehicles mentioned, but it satisfies the offroad and mileage requirements. I think I'd heard that they won't pass emissions in CA, someone else may be able to clarify.
Colin
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xprompt
Apr 26, 2005, 1:55 AM
Post #47 of 54
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Posts: 159
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tough choice....id get a tundra
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phatcat
Apr 26, 2005, 2:39 AM
Post #48 of 54
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Registered: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 598
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damn! those are way nicer than my apartment!
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walrus
Apr 26, 2005, 8:57 AM
Post #49 of 54
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Registered: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 136
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[quote="tallnik"]ALL time awd eats up gas when you don't need the extra push though.... That would be my only criticism of the Syncro. However, does anyone know if they make a Syncro VW that's not full time AWD. Example of Fulltime eatin more...
I don't agree with a synchro being a gas eater.
Even if you could switch it out the you would still have that assembly rotating from the wheel power as opposed to the power from the transmission. Unless a vehicle has a subtransmission and manual locking or automatic locking hubs that have no decelleration braking then power is still lost.
All awd and 4wd are not the same. Not all 4wd are the same either.
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azrockclimber
Apr 26, 2005, 12:10 PM
Post #50 of 54
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Registered: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 666
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"If you can't do it with a set of nuts, 6 cams, and 5 ice screws, you have no right to be climbing it anyway". (Twight)
Looks like I have no right to be climbing anything other than single pitch bolted belay climbs (with five ice screws to spare)....damn.
I think those toyota vans are sweet for what your talking about.
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