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robo555
Apr 25, 2005, 1:29 PM
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It's a 10.2mm rope, Beal Flyer II is also a 10.2mm rope, the Edlinger has higher impact force, and can handle 8 as oppose to 10 falls.
It's considerably cheaper than the Beal Flyer II or any other 10mm+ rope though. Is there anything else that makes it cheaper than others? Things like durability, etc?
Also, the rope isn't on bealplanet.com or Black Diamond's site, is it last year's model or something?
backcountry lists it as 74g/m, but I'm sure I've seen it listed as 65g/m - quite a big difference, since it's not on bealplanet or BD's site, I can't confirm.
I do sport climbing, is it worth buying this as my first rope, will it crap out sooner, or go for something bit more expensive?
I don't have money to keep replacing ropes, so if this rope has significantly shorter lifespan, then it's probably not for me.
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montafoner
Apr 25, 2005, 1:53 PM
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Reasons it may be cheaper (cost less):
1. 8 kN impact force, should not be a problem on bolts
2. 8 falls, not very impressive, but not bad either
3. Model year. it seems to be last years
info from gearexpress.biz
Specs:
Falls: 8
Impact Force:
Weight per meter: 65g
Black Limit (Middle of rope marked with black ink.)
Dry Cover
Color: As Shown
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jt512
Apr 25, 2005, 10:55 PM
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In reply to: It's a 10.2mm rope, Beal Flyer II is also a 10.2mm rope, the Edlinger has higher impact force, and can handle 8 as oppose to 10 falls. It's considerably cheaper than the Beal Flyer II or any other 10mm+ rope though. Is there anything else that makes it cheaper than others? Things like durability, etc? Also, the rope isn't on bealplanet.com or Black Diamond's site, is it last year's model or something? backcountry lists it as 74g/m, but I'm sure I've seen it listed as 65g/m - quite a big difference, since it's not on bealplanet or BD's site, I can't confirm. I do sport climbing, is it worth buying this as my first rope, will it crap out sooner, or go for something bit more expensive?
Beal's sheaths wear out faster than other ropes', but Beal ropes maintain their elasticity longer. If you value durability over low-impact force you would be better off with a Maxim Twill, Sterling Marathon, or Mammut Flash; if you are willing to sacrifice durability for a rope that'll perform well in terms of minimizing impact force for the life of the rope, go with Beal.
-Jay
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caughtinside
Apr 25, 2005, 11:06 PM
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Jay,
Do you have any thoughts on the Edlinger's performance/durability as compared to other Beal ropes you've owned? i.e., why cheaper than the Flyer...
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jt512
Apr 25, 2005, 11:18 PM
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In reply to: Jay, Do you have any thoughts on the Edlinger's performance/durability as compared to other Beal ropes you've owned? i.e., why cheaper than the Flyer...
I'm not really sure. Isn't it a couple g/m heavier and has a few fewer falls, and a slightly higher impact force. So, overall, it doesn't seem to be quite up to the standards of the Flyer. Also, is it sharp-edge resistant like the Flyer? I recently started climbing on an Edlinger, and thought that the catches were hard for a Beal, but there was also a lot of rope drag on the route, which would also make the catches feel harder. Man, if I could afford to buy 3 or 4 ropes a year, I'd climb on nothing but Beal Stingers. That's a freakin' sexy rope.
-Jay
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robo555
Apr 26, 2005, 5:09 AM
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In reply to: Beal's sheaths wear out faster than other ropes', but Beal ropes maintain their elasticity longer. -Jay
What do you mean by maintain their elasticity longer? Do other ropes become less 'bouncy' after a while? Is that a problem, or does it just mean it may not be as comfortable to fall on?
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buckydano
Apr 26, 2005, 5:45 AM
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i have the same question. i bought the flyer II at the rei in bloomington mn while travelling and got back and realized that my gym had the edlinger for a whole lot less. is it worth to extra money? to return it to rei, i would have to drive a few hundred miles or mail it out, which makes the $55 price difference much smaller...
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darkside
Apr 26, 2005, 6:48 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Beal's sheaths wear out faster than other ropes', but Beal ropes maintain their elasticity longer. -Jay What do you mean by maintain their elasticity longer? Do other ropes become less 'bouncy' after a while? Is that a problem, or does it just mean it may not be as comfortable to fall on?
Elasticity is related to impact forces. For someone top-roping, this is basically irrelevant.
For a sport climber (assuming the bolts are in good shape) it basically means a harder catch as time goes on and the rope loses elasticity but impact forces on the bolts should never be an issue (if it is then pick a different route).
For trad climbers or ice climbers, impact forces are just one of the things that need a little more consideration. The relevance of a rope maintaining better elasticity over a longer time frame is that impact forces will remain more favourable. That in turn means less chance of marginal pro pulling out.
If this is your first rope, I doubt you will be leading and falling on trad yet right? If you want to lead sport routes with it you may want to consider durability over elasticity.
As a side note - I remember reading about some old ropes that were tested. I don't recall what make or who did the tests. The results were interesting in that while the ropes were unused and stored in ideal conditions, they were many years old (nearly 20 yrs I think). Manufacturers give recommendations as to shelf life and typically this is 4 years max before retirement. These 20 yr old ropes were tested to failure and at a strength rating only slightly lower than when new. The significant difference was revealed when their elasticity was tested. Elasticity is reduced over time for all ropes although some ropes fare better because of the way they are woven. These old ropes were drastically less elastic.
Moral of the story = don't use old ropes for leading.
In reply to: I don't have money to keep replacing ropes, so if this rope has significantly shorter lifespan, then it's probably not for me.
P.S. the Edlinger is just one of the ropes I own. I bought it earlier this year as a reasonable balance of price and performance in a 10.2mm rope.
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t-dog
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Apr 26, 2005, 8:29 AM
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WTF? Somebody call the feds, some companies out there are selling cheaper climbing equipment!!!!! Everybody knows that's against the law :twisted:
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robo555
Apr 26, 2005, 12:53 PM
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In reply to: Unfortunately for the wallet, buying new ropes is a fact of life for a climber. You can delay it and you can look for the best deals, but because of a simple fact, replacing ropes is unavoidable.
I realise that, that's why I wanted to know if it's worth the extra money to buy a more durable rope, so I can delay replacing it.
So kinda comes down to, whether the Flash will last 1.5x more over the Edlinger II.
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j_ung
Apr 26, 2005, 2:02 PM
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Personally, I think the climber can affect the life of his or her rope more than the rope itself. I've seen the most durable cords get pounded to dust in a month and I've seen supposedly short-lived models last years.
If you're not climbing walls or mountains, you should be able extend your rope's life by a reasonable amount, no matter what model it is.
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slacklinejoe
Apr 26, 2005, 4:06 PM
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Just another bit to add to the discussion. I bought one of those Edlinger II's your talking about when Gear Express put it on sale. We've put it through paces very hard over the last 2 weeks and I think it fits the bill for a beginner rope quite well.
Jay hit the nail on the head with the comments on the importants of elasticity. I wouldn't recommend the rope for marginal trad or ice, but overall I liked it for TR and sport.
It did have a little bit harder catch than some of the other ropes I've been on, but it certainly was acceptable on sport leads. It even top ropped perfectly fine. The lower elasticity actually helped it there since you wouldn't hit the deck if you fell in the first 10 feet, unlike my trad lead rope. The sheath wear might be not-so-nice for TRing in the long run, but from what I can tell, it's a good all around rope, and the price is pretty tough to beat at $85 and free shipping.
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cfnubbler
Apr 26, 2005, 4:46 PM
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Has anyone compared the 2 cords side by side? I ask because over the years, I've worked for 2 of the largest rope manufacturers in the market, and both offered what were called "promo" ropes in the industry. They where essentially price-point ropes demanded by the big chain retailers. Now you can't offer a product just to REI and not the little shops as well, so these "promo" ropes were (and still are) available at retail shops around the country.
Funny thing was, they were EXACTLY the same as higher priced ropes in the product line- the only thing different were the specs published on the hang tags. It just didn't make sense to manufacture two seperate products- economies of scale made it more cost effective to just repackagea and sell in-line ropes at a reduced cost.
I'm not saying that's the case with these Beals, but I know for a fact that it has been done in the past.
-Nubbler
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jt512
Apr 26, 2005, 9:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Beal's sheaths wear out faster than other ropes', but Beal ropes maintain their elasticity longer. -Jay What do you mean by maintain their elasticity longer? Do other ropes become less 'bouncy' after a while? Is that a problem, or does it just mean it may not be as comfortable to fall on?
Yes. Ropes lose elasticity with use, and hence their impact forces increase. Beal ropes have the characteristic that they retain their elasticity longer than other ropes, in my experience. On occasion, I have had to retire other ropes before their sheathes wore out because the impact forces became painfully high. I would not have trusted that rope on trad gear (don't even say it, Dingus) due to excessive impact force.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 26, 2005, 9:10 PM
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In reply to: Personally, I think the climber can affect the life of his or her rope more than the rope itself. I've seen the most durable cords get pounded to dust in a month and I've seen supposedly short-lived models last years. If you're not climbing walls or mountains, you should be able extend your rope's life by a reasonable amount, no matter what model it is.
Not if you're sport climbing. Taking repeated falls on the same section of rope wears the rope out quickly, and differences in durability between ropes become quickly apparent.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 26, 2005, 9:16 PM
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In reply to: Has anyone compared the 2 cords side by side? I ask because over the years, I've worked for 2 of the largest rope manufacturers in the market, and both offered what were called "promo" ropes in the industry. They where essentially price-point ropes demanded by the big chain retailers. Now you can't offer a product just to REI and not the little shops as well, so these "promo" ropes were (and still are) available at retail shops around the country. Funny thing was, they were EXACTLY the same as higher priced ropes in the product line- the only thing different were the specs published on the hang tags. It just didn't make sense to manufacture two seperate products- economies of scale made it more cost effective to just repackagea and sell in-line ropes at a reduced cost. I'm not saying that's the case with these Beals, but I know for a fact that it has been done in the past. -Nubbler
You know, I'll bet that's exactly what the Edlinger is. It never made any sense to me that Beal would do something to intentionally make a poorer performing rope when they were already making a better one.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 26, 2005, 9:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Unfortunately for the wallet, buying new ropes is a fact of life for a climber. You can delay it and you can look for the best deals, but because of a simple fact, replacing ropes is unavoidable. I realise that, that's why I wanted to know if it's worth the extra money to buy a more durable rope, so I can delay replacing it. So kinda comes down to, whether the Flash will last 1.5x more over the Edlinger II.
I used to use Flashes until I switched to Beals. In my experience the Flash will last about 1.5 times as long, maybe even twice as long, but the Flash has a noticably harder catch. I take enough falls that I'm willing to pay more to hurt less, but I'm light, and often get stopped abruptly by heavier belayers who don't always provide the optimal dynamic belay. Needless to say, YMMV.
-Jay
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buckydano
Apr 28, 2005, 3:37 AM
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well, too late to return the rope since i opened it and used it. i'm wondering if the difference is in the sheath or core, or if like said previously, its just the name and color.
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chrispencc
Apr 28, 2005, 3:56 AM
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the Edlinger is cheeper because its not the sweet color like the flyer. j/k but I purchsed the flyer 2 and am very impressed and I got a greatdeal on backcountry.com
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buckydano
Apr 28, 2005, 4:38 AM
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now that i think about it, i think the teton rock gym just put up a few edlingers and they seem to have a little less bounce than the flyer. i'll have to check it out again. maybe i'm just imagining it.
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cjstudent
Apr 28, 2005, 4:49 AM
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I just got mine the other day. I picked up the 50m version, to have a nice light weight rope. I basically bought it to use on some of the easier alpine climbs im doing this summer in the sierras...to save on weight but still have 10.2. (hence the 50m)
I will probably post a review about it after i test it some. For less than $90...I think it looks to be a good rope to have around.
(and on a side note it is not my primary rope........)
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