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shnobe
Apr 30, 2005, 5:18 AM
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I was wondering what the thoughts were on clearing poison oak around established climbing areas. We have some local climbing areas that have become over grown with the beloved poison oak. Is killing it a climbing NO-NO? I was just wondering what the climbing community thought about clearing the climbers worst enemy.
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woutdoor
Apr 30, 2005, 5:26 AM
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ROUND UP
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superbum
Apr 30, 2005, 5:27 AM
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climbers' worst enemy huh? I would rather brush up against some Poison Oak then stuff my fingers in an overhanging seam full of wasps. What about those rodent infested bouldering caves we've all been to? Ever heard of the Hanta virus??? Seriously though, If it's a problem, solve it. If there are quality climbs that are virtually blocked by this plant then I think people will understand some pruning. Compromise by not killing the whole bush, but just trimming to a more friendly length. If you can still climb (and belay) in "un-oakey" spots then leave it alone. I've been climbing in Boise for the last coupla weeks and the guidebook mentions (quite frequently) to beware Poison Ivy. I don't even know what it looks like and I'm still OK...so, who knows....interesting question
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cintune
May 2, 2005, 12:49 AM
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I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
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aaronbr86
May 2, 2005, 12:53 AM
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I read the thread title and thought someone was thinking about actually growing the stuff :shock: . I read hoping there would be some good replies but I guess it isnt as interesting as i thought it was going to be. -Aaron
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static_endurance
May 2, 2005, 1:17 AM
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In reply to: Hi, i was curious as to whether or not gardening poison oak was accepted socially and by law. I'm worried that having a garden of poison oak may target me as a drug dealer.... which i'm not... seriously, i'm not... though it does burn quite well.... and no one's gonna want to steal it.... But seriously, not a dealer, don't even know what drugs are... So is it ok from a totally non drug dealerish standpoint? Cause i'm really not. I expected something along those lines. I must say i was sorely dissapointed. But to answer the question, as everyone else said, just cut it back. I seriously doubt anyone is gonna complain about the lack of overflowing poison oak brushing their legs. But try not to napalm, people might notice that.
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iltripp
May 2, 2005, 1:41 AM
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Screw that... get a goat. It'll eat all the poison oak and you'll be able to make great cheese!
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srwings
May 2, 2005, 2:06 AM
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For my part, I don't hesitate to cut back sticker vines and poison ivy in areas that I help maintain. I usually carry a folding saw, pruners and work gloves with me when I go out to my local areas in Northern Virginia. Sometimes I even bring a gas powered hedge trimmer if the stuff is really bad. I've considered a herbicide like Round Up but since these areas drain into rivers that we drink and fish from I decided to forego the chemicals.
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scuclimber
May 2, 2005, 2:11 AM
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In reply to: For my part, I don't hesitate to cut back sticker vines and poison ivy in areas that I help maintain. I usually carry a folding saw, pruners and work gloves with me when I go out to my local areas in Northern Virginia. Sometimes I even bring a gas powered hedge trimmer if the stuff is really bad. I've considered a herbicide like Round Up but since these areas drain into rivers that we drink and fish from I decided to forego the chemicals. Barring drainage issues, Round Up works well. Goats do too. One of our neighbors had one to clear brambles. Unfortunately the goat will eat the poison oak will eat the poison oak and everything else within reach, trample the ground, and it's not very practical to tether a goat on (what I'm assuming is) public land. Colin
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steve-o
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May 2, 2005, 2:12 AM
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Get rid of it, all of it! I'm very allergic.
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naitwin
May 2, 2005, 2:28 AM
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Be very careful. The plant oils will stay on ropes, gear, and clothing for weeks, and cause some very painful results. If you touch poision oak and have no reaction, don't assume that you're immune. Repeated exposure may eventually cause an outrageous brakeout one day. That happened to me and I couldn't stop itching for a month. btw... burning the poision oak is a bad idea. The heptadecylcatechols will enter your lungs from the smoke, and cause serious problems- possibly death.
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slobmonster
May 2, 2005, 4:48 AM
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Poison oak, Poison Ivy, and Stinging Nettles have all been my bane at one time or another. Round-up. BZZZAAP. And DON'T burn the stuff.
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eyecannon
May 2, 2005, 5:11 AM
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I'm a vegetarian and love all god's creatures and what not, but I personally think you should DESTROY ALL URUSHIOL CONTAINING PLANTS. Problem is, you have to physically remove the plants to get rid of the threat, because the chemical stays active up to 5 years from the plant being killed. You won't catch me yanking up urushiol containing plants, I am extremely allergic :(
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lardbutt
May 2, 2005, 5:52 AM
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Yes, get rid of it, but consider this: Compiled by Caroline Cox, Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides- (NCAP) Roundup, and related herbicides with glyphosate as an active ingredient, are advertised as products that can "eradicate weeds and unwanted grasses effectively with a high level of environmental safety." However, an independent, accurate evaluation of their health and environmental hazards can draw conclusions very different from those presented in the ads. Consider these facts: 1. Glyphosate can be persistent. In tests conducted by Monsanto, manufacturer of glyphosate-containing herbicides, up to 140 days were required for half of the applied glyphosate to break down or disappear from agricultural soils. At harvest, residues of glyphosate were found in lettuce, carrots, and barley planted one year after glyphosate treatment. 2. Glyphosate can drift. Test conducted by the University of California, Davis, found that glyphosate drifted up to 400 meters (1300 feet) durng ground applications and 800 meters 12600 feet) during aerial applications. 3. Glyphosate is acutely toxic to humans. Ingesting about 3/4 of a cup can be lethal. Symptoms include eye and skin irritation, lung congestion, and erosion of the intestinal tract. Between 1984 and 1990 in California, glyphosate was the third most frequently reported cause of illness related to agricultural pesticide use. 4. Glyphosate has shown a wide spectrum of chronic toxicity in laboratory tests. The National Toxicology Program found that chronic feeding of glyphosate caused salivary gland lesions, reduced sperm counts, and a lengthened estrous cycle (how often an individual comes into heat). Other chronic effects found in laboratory tests include an increase in the frequency of lethal mutations in fruit flies, an increase in frequency of pancreas and liver tumors in male rats along with an increase in the frequency of thyroid tumors in females, and cataracts. (ne fruit fly study used Roundup; the other studies used glyphosate.) 5. Roundup contains toxic trade secret ingredients. These include polyethoxylated tallowamines, causing nausea and diarrhea, and isopropylamine, causing chemical pneumonia, laryngitis, headache, and bums. 6. Roundup kills beneficial insects. Tests conducted by The International Organization for Biological Control showed that Roundup caused mortality of live beneficial species: a Thrichgramma, a predatory mite, a lacewing, a ladybug, and a predatory beetle. 7. Glyphosate is hazardous to earthworms, Tests using New Zealand's most common earthworm showed that glyphosate, in amounts as low as 1/20 of standard application rates, reduced its growth and slowed its development. 8. Roundup inhibits mycorrhizal fungi. Canadian studies have shown that as little as 1 part per million of Roundup can reduce the growth or colonization of mycorrhizal fungi. 9. Glyphosate reduces nitrogen fixation. Amounts as small as 2 parts per million have had significant effects, and effects have been measured up to 120 days after treatment. Nitrogen- fixing bacteria shown to be impacted by glyphosate include a species found on soybeans and several species found on clover. 10. Roundup can increase the spread or severity of plant diseases. Treatment with roundup increased the severity of Rhizoctonia root rot in barley, increased the amount and growth of take-all fungus, a wheat disease), and reduced the ability of bean plants to defend themselves against anthracnose.
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azrockclimber
May 2, 2005, 11:08 AM
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get rid of it... use your judgement. It's not a no no.
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billcoe_
May 2, 2005, 2:59 PM
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In reply to: Yes, get rid of it, but consider this: Compiled by Caroline Cox, Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides- (NCAP) Roundup, and related herbicides with glyphosate as an active ingredient, are advertised as products that can "eradicate weeds and unwanted grasses effectively with a high level of environmental safety." However, an independent, accurate evaluation of their health and environmental hazards can draw conclusions very different from those presented in the ads. Consider these facts: 1. Glyphosate can be persistent. In tests conducted by Monsanto, manufacturer of glyphosate-containing herbicides, up to 140 days were required for half of the applied glyphosate to break down or disappear from agricultural soils. At harvest, residues of glyphosate were found in lettuce, carrots, and barley planted one year after glyphosate treatment. 2. Glyphosate can drift. Test conducted by the University of California, Davis, found that glyphosate drifted up to 400 meters (1300 feet) durng ground applications and 800 meters 12600 feet) during aerial applications. 3. Glyphosate is acutely toxic to humans. Ingesting about 3/4 of a cup can be lethal. Symptoms include eye and skin irritation, lung congestion, and erosion of the intestinal tract. Between 1984 and 1990 in California, glyphosate was the third most frequently reported cause of illness related to agricultural pesticide use. 4. Glyphosate has shown a wide spectrum of chronic toxicity in laboratory tests. The National Toxicology Program found that chronic feeding of glyphosate caused salivary gland lesions, reduced sperm counts, and a lengthened estrous cycle (how often an individual comes into heat). Other chronic effects found in laboratory tests include an increase in the frequency of lethal mutations in fruit flies, an increase in frequency of pancreas and liver tumors in male rats along with an increase in the frequency of thyroid tumors in females, and cataracts. (ne fruit fly study used Roundup; the other studies used glyphosate.) 5. Roundup contains toxic trade secret ingredients. These include polyethoxylated tallowamines, causing nausea and diarrhea, and isopropylamine, causing chemical pneumonia, laryngitis, headache, and bums. 6. Roundup kills beneficial insects. Tests conducted by The International Organization for Biological Control showed that Roundup caused mortality of live beneficial species: a Thrichgramma, a predatory mite, a lacewing, a ladybug, and a predatory beetle. 7. Glyphosate is hazardous to earthworms, Tests using New Zealand's most common earthworm showed that glyphosate, in amounts as low as 1/20 of standard application rates, reduced its growth and slowed its development. 8. Roundup inhibits mycorrhizal fungi. Canadian studies have shown that as little as 1 part per million of Roundup can reduce the growth or colonization of mycorrhizal fungi. 9. Glyphosate reduces nitrogen fixation. Amounts as small as 2 parts per million have had significant effects, and effects have been measured up to 120 days after treatment. Nitrogen- fixing bacteria shown to be impacted by glyphosate include a species found on soybeans and several species found on clover. 10. Roundup can increase the spread or severity of plant diseases. Treatment with roundup increased the severity of Rhizoctonia root rot in barley, increased the amount and growth of take-all fungus, a wheat disease), and reduced the ability of bean plants to defend themselves against anthracnose. So...............use it sparingly.
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bumblie
May 2, 2005, 3:14 PM
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Roundup
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trenchdigger
May 2, 2005, 3:18 PM
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In reply to: ... an independent, accurate evaluation of their health and environmental hazards... I'm not sure this source is exactly "independent." They obviously have an opinion on this and that's what's driving what tidbits of herbicide research they're preenting to you. And as far as accuracy, I'm sensing a bit of bias in the NCAP statements. There seems to be a lot of incomplete information in some of these statements - ie. presenting only the information that supports their opinion. Now, I'm not promoting widespread use of herbicides. But in cases where there are significant barriers to other methods of eradication, sparing use of herbicides may be a viable alternative. ~Adam~
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dingus
May 2, 2005, 3:21 PM
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I say let someone else deal with it. DMT
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slablizard
May 2, 2005, 3:47 PM
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Destroy it. I hate that stupid plant.
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dingus
May 2, 2005, 4:04 PM
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In reply to: Now, I'm not promoting widespread use of herbicides. Roundup is the most widely used and abused heribicide in history, I seem to remember reading somewhere. Suburban run off alone is laced with the stuff. Used to be, weeding the yard meant grasping and pulling, or maybe god forbid, using a hoe. Now its 'squirt squirt squirt.' No one wants to stand in poison oak to do a belay, or be forced to hike barelegged through the stuff. But going ape shit with roundup to kill a native plant in its own habitat is sorta the nuclear option. Another option... affect a Billy Bob Thornton accent, grab a sling blade and do it the old fashioned way. If you mutter "Kill it before it grows, ummm hmmm" in a gutteral voice as you swing the blade, I can pretty much promise no one will bother you! DMT
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shnobe
May 2, 2005, 4:40 PM
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Hey thanks for all of the input, our climbing area has a lot of potential but the poison oak is very lush. Round Up is an option but I do not want too cause any permanent environmental damage so I may try to avoid that option. Maybe I’ll just take one for the team put on some rubber gloves and pull the stuff up, but as someone who is very allergic to the stuff that option that is a little scary. I do like the sling blade approach and the goat is a good idea but I’m not sure where the goat would live after he’s eaten the all Poison Oak. :)
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leinosaur
May 2, 2005, 5:29 PM
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In reply to: "Kill it before it grows, ummm hmmm" in a gutteral voice as you swing the blade, I can pretty much promise no one will bother you! DMT Dat's what Sheriff John Brown say, every time Bob Marley plant a seed. So Bob shot, he shot he shot 'im down. But he didn't shoot no deputy. Regarding these pesky plants, though - we got rid of plenty of poison ivy at the Access Fund adopt-a-crag last fall, along an established trail. Minimizing your impact is important, especially in wilderness areas, but climbing almost never has NO impact and I'm presuming these are good lines or you wouldn't even think of clearning them, right? So, read up on how to remove the stuff with the least danger to yourself and the area, then remove a reasonable amount and tell us how it went. A follow-up report (or two) will be much more informative than a bunch of ya-hoos shouting, "roundup!" or "not roundup!" Regarding roundup, though: I presume it would kill the plant, but somebody still has to get the (now even more) poisonous material out of the way. Mike McGrath on You Bet Your Garden radio show gave thorough instructions regarding removal of an extensive growth of poison ivy. Here's a link to his 7 Step Poison Ivy Purging Plan. Don't know about poison oak, though. http://www.whyy.org/.../ybyg/poisonivy.html
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leinosaur
May 2, 2005, 5:38 PM
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These excerpts are from UC Davis' Integrated Pest Management website: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/...ESTNOTES/pn7431.html
In reply to: Mechanical Hand-pulling or mechanical grubbing (using a shovel, pick, etc.) can be used to physically remove plants located in a yard or near houses. Remove plants in early spring or late fall when the soil is moist and the rootstalks are easily dislodged. Grubbing when the soil is dry and hard will usually break off the stems, leaving the rootstalks to vigorously resprout. Detached and dried brush can still cause dermatitis, so bury or stack the plant material in an out-of-the-way location, or take it to a disposal site. Never burn poison oak. (Chemical control) Glyphosate is one of the most effective herbicides for the control of poison oak. However, effective control depends upon proper timing of the application. Apply glyphosate late in the growth cycle, after fruit have formed but before leaves lose their green color. In hand-held equipment, glyphosate can be applied as a 2% solution in water. (Products or spray mixtures containing less than 2% glyphosate may not effectively control poison oak.) It is important to note that glyphosate is a nonselective compound and will damage or kill other vegetation it contacts. So, if you want to do it now, and clear it for this season, go mechanical and clean. If you insist on Roundup, leave it 'til later and don't over-apply. If these climbs are really worth it, I bet you'll get out there now!
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