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natec
Jul 8, 2002, 8:17 PM
Post #26 of 46
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I have heard of the USMGA and the AMGA but what is a UIAMGA guide? Is that a typo?
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doosh
Jul 8, 2002, 8:44 PM
Post #27 of 46
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Registered: May 29, 2002
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Radistrad- the Q is for QUEER.
See how high yours is, and how low mine is... the system works!
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dondiego
Jul 8, 2002, 8:49 PM
Post #28 of 46
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1. Books are meant to be tools for teachers not a replacement for them.
2. As for Mr. Trad-y-dat-daddy, I have read some of his posts and as he seems much more intelligent and experience than I am, I am sure that he did not learn his wealth of knowlege from reading so much other ways.
3. I teach life and death for a living and in doing so have learned a few things about people. There are people that are so concerned with safety that they will take the fun out of everything and there are people that are so concerned with fun that they will take the safety out of everything. Someone new to this sport has to find a person that rides in the middle of the road and make them your friend. Buy a book and have them explain to you what the diagrams are and how to make a rope look like the knott in the picture. Just watch the posts and where people are from and then contact one of the members in your area to go climbing. Most of us are always looking forward to bringing gumbies into this sport the safe way.
4. It's Don Diego de la Vega , whay does everyone always get it wrong?
-Don Diego-
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doosh
Jul 8, 2002, 9:11 PM
Post #29 of 46
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Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
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Can you teach me some death ???
I really want to learn that "iron palm".
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marmot
Jul 8, 2002, 10:05 PM
Post #30 of 46
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Registered: Jun 12, 2002
Posts: 680
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Like everything, you get what you pay for. This site, while it does provide some useful information, is not billed as an educational site. As a new climber, I don't expect do find the answer to technique or how to questions. But I do find some responses that provoke some thought, and force me to dig a little deeper into books, other websites, and pick the brains of other climbers. I have seen one piece of advice on this site that I find to be stellar and woth following (even without a second opinion), and that is to seek training from a professional or experienced climber.
I have to challenge the assertion that the only persons qualified to train one to climb is certified by certain bodies. I say this with no disrespect to the certification, or to those who have gone through the requisite steps to obtain certification. A skilled, experienced climber can give good instruction. Why do I challenge the assertion about the certification? I have held two professional certifications (as a ski instructor and as a snowboard instructor). I worked hard for those and I worked with a bunch of really top notch instructors. I also worked with some with higher certifications who could not teach a particular manueuver worth anything at all, forget about making progressing into one from a point that is not perfectly part of the PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America) teaching progression.
My second reason, I work in the computer industry. Every day, I deal with "technicians" who have obtained professional vendor certification (Cicso, Microsoft, Novell) as well as standard hardware support certification (A+) who are unable to perform the most simple troubleshooting task without having their hand held! Again, there are others who hold these certfications that can troubleshoot rings around me, but there are those who paid their money for the paper, and forgot it all.
Certifications are only as good as the person who has obtained the certification. Been to a public school? How were your teachers? Some good, some really bad, right? Well they all were certified by that state to teach in the public school system.
Personally, I found my wife has received better instruction in the gym on belaying and tying in than I did from guides when I went on my first climb or from my search and rescue training.
I do agree with what some have said that most here are capable of disseminating the useful information from the garbage.
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geezergecko
Jul 9, 2002, 2:12 AM
Post #31 of 46
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This all reminds me of the Sophomore Syndrome. College years are divided into Freshman (year 1), Sophomore (year 2), Junior (year 3), and Senior (year 4). Freshmen don't know anything and are lost. Sophomores think they know everything and are proud to say so. Juniors realize that they really knew very little. Seniors know everything but are smug about it.
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k9rocko
Jul 9, 2002, 3:18 AM
Post #32 of 46
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Registered: May 12, 2002
Posts: 195
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I really like this site, and have learned a lot. However, this is because I came here already schooled by many experienced partner(s)... none who were "certified"
Quote:
BTW..Anyone know Bruce McKenzie?? He is probably living somewhere in Colorado. I have moved several times since we last climbed together, and wonder where the heck he went.
The fact remains that I still do things the way he taught me (even funk my runners). Maybe he wouldn't feel so much like "the teacher" if we were still climbing together. I would, however, still feel like "the student". This website has done nothing to change the way I tie knots, climb, belay, etc.
But this website has done is given me the opportunity to meet some really cool people, some of whom have a wealth of knowledge and experience.... and some of them have affected my climbing in a very positive way.
I admit to having given advice online, but I do so in the form of "Man I wouldn't do that S%% if I were you"
This type of advice has provoked some negative responses from folks who may disagree with me, but I will stand my ground. (see above statement)
In order to avoid being abrasive, I have even offered an apology, or two. Like I said, this site isn't where I go to learn to climb.... I do that with a competent partner, at the crag...
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pelliott
Jul 9, 2002, 3:49 AM
Post #33 of 46
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Registered: Mar 10, 2002
Posts: 317
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It has been my experience here that, if you follow a thread long enough, the bad advice will usually get cancelled out. Someone with more experience or common sense fixes the erroneous message. The hard part comes when it is a subject that is still in dispute and this usually just gets entertaining. Everybody rants and raves about this and that way that things should be done when the truth is that both sides are right.
In general I think that this site is good. The discussion and hashing out the issues can give you real answers. As in most complicated issues, you just can't always take the first answer you get. You need more than one opinion. Sometimes more than one right opinion and then you can make an educated decision about which one is best.
The subject that comes to mind immediately is the EDK for tying two rap ropes together. There are people who say it is bad and people who swear by it. Who is right?
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radistrad
Jul 9, 2002, 2:20 PM
Post #34 of 46
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Registered: Feb 25, 2002
Posts: 800
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Doosh, I see that you are good at making friends!
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jds100
Jul 11, 2002, 12:17 AM
Post #35 of 46
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Registered: Aug 5, 2001
Posts: 1008
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In addition to having a problem with disengaging the Caps Lock key, it seems that Gawd may be just a bit of an elitist. Catch the remark about lowering standards so the AMGA could be certified by the UIMGA?
No one said that someone would be asking for advice from an internet forum board if they were out on a climb. How does something become "ingrained (sic)" in ones brain? Certainly from experience, much of which would be, hoprfully, from applying what one has learned from various sources (resources). Those sources of education include (but are not restricted to) reading books and reading internet climbing forum threads. Does Gawd mean to imply that one can only learn to swim by being thrown into the deep end as an infant? Does Gawd mean to suggest that we should never ask questions from anyone other someone with a UIMGA patch on his jacket?
Maybe in the same way that Gawd believes that "all climbing leads to the mountains", he believes that all learning can only come from the UIMGA.
TURN OFF YOUR f---ING CAPS LOCK!!
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wildtrail
Jul 11, 2002, 12:54 AM
Post #36 of 46
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Registered: Jul 6, 2002
Posts: 11063
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Here! Here! For "newtocalgary"!
atg200,
No offense, but how long have you been climbing? Your only 25. He is 39. This guy was climbing before you were born. This guy was climbing before Cams and "D" biners were born! Not flaming you. Just making a point.
To all,
Can we stop using those stupid terms? They make us sound moronic. You know, things like poser or gumbie. Stupid.
Climb safe and have fun!
Steve
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biggernhell
Jul 11, 2002, 1:38 AM
Post #37 of 46
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Registered: Jun 7, 2002
Posts: 563
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What does someone climbing before you were born have to do with their knowledge? I saw a Boyscout instuctor toproping kids on a 90ft route with a static line running though a pullet. When I jumped his ass about it he said "Son, I was climbing before you were born." What a bunch of shit. All that phrase means is that your a very lucky idiot. The guy was wearing one of those "mount me" hats though. Anybody out there whose been climbin' for two and a half decades AND wears a "mount me" hat can't possibly be an idiot, now can they? Or, maybe if they've been climbing for two and half decades, wear a mount me hat, and type in ALL CAPS ALL OF THE TIME. What exactly are the qualifications for being an idiot?
AHH, tis a brave new world in which we live.
[ This Message was edited by: biggernhell on 2002-07-10 18:40 ]
[ This Message was edited by: biggernhell on 2002-07-10 18:41 ]
[ This Message was edited by: biggernhell on 2002-07-10 18:43 ]
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jgorris
Jul 11, 2002, 1:51 AM
Post #38 of 46
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Registered: Jan 30, 2002
Posts: 124
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Gawd "ALL CAPS" writes:
THE AMGA CERTIFICATION JUST BECAME ACCPETED AS THE UIMAGA LOWERED ITS REQUIRMENTS TO JOIN.
The UIMAGA are the same "guides" who sanction bolting up classic routes all over Europe so they can "guide" them for money.
If we need to "raise" our guiding standards to achieve that, then no thanks.
[ This Message was edited by: jgorris on 2002-07-10 19:02 ]
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dondiego
Jul 11, 2002, 2:09 AM
Post #39 of 46
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Registered: May 8, 2001
Posts: 1367
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Can't we all just get along.
-Don Diego-
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wildtrail
Jul 11, 2002, 2:13 AM
Post #40 of 46
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Registered: Jul 6, 2002
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I agree with Don.
If you must know, what I am saying is the longer you've been climbing, the more you know. Climbing isn't like high school in which you can skate by without knowing much. So, to answer your question, Some one that has been climbing longer than one has been alive will know more about climbing than the younger person.
How long have you been climbing? Your 22, he is 39. He's got 17 years on you. I know you can do the math. Just pointing out the obvious.
Hey, I'm not flaming. Someone who is has been climbing since the 70's would know more by accident than you or I.
Steve
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newtocalgary
Jul 11, 2002, 2:33 AM
Post #41 of 46
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Registered: May 16, 2002
Posts: 97
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I stated I dont listen to my own advice sometimes and still learn new stuff on occasion and if I had at least one ex partner still alive from my learning stage you could have asked them. And whats all this talk about these cam thingies I read about them once in a book you new guys still think clogs are shoes only. Youll find all mine from the 70's and eighties on Yamnuska and you can add my 25 year old gear to your rack as bootie
And before you think Im bitchen you dont know me Im just being my sarcastic self so slam me if you want ignore me if you want thats why its an open forum
And to some of you youngbucks Like I was when I stated I used to do some crazy stupid sh*t Some of the time building routes was an ego thing Buddy would laugh that he did a 30 foot runout so next week you'd come back with a 55 foot runout and to this day I have only once gone back and placed a bolt to lessen the runout and anything new that goes up is way less crazy for the simple fact is Im less crazy now than in my teens just the quality of the routes get better.
[ This Message was edited by: newtocalgary on 2002-07-10 19:37 ]
[ This Message was edited by: newtocalgary on 2002-07-10 19:54 ]
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wildtrail
Jul 11, 2002, 3:55 AM
Post #42 of 46
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Registered: Jul 6, 2002
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I like you Gale. You sound just like the guys I learned from.
You got me laughin'!
Cam thingies, huh? You know what. I don't use them either. I think they are cheating, but that is my opinion. I don't care if others use them. Its just my way. Nuts and hexes only. Just like old times I never knew!
55 foot run out? Damn! I won't go past 7 feet anymore after a good 24ish foot whipper!
No way, no how!
Steve
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menace
Jul 11, 2002, 7:51 PM
Post #43 of 46
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Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 4
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"DON"T LISTEN TO ADVICE HERE..."
Wait, does that mean starting now? Like yours? So I SHOULD listen to advice here? I'm so comfused...
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likethegoddess
Jul 12, 2002, 1:07 AM
Post #44 of 46
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Registered: Jul 5, 2002
Posts: 150
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I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I want to say first off, thanks. Thanks for coming on this board and sharing your experience. Thanks for caring about our collective health and safety. I've been on forums for other interests when I was the senior, so I know it's not easy.
As much as I support personal, off-line exchange as my favorite way to learn and grow in whatever endeavor, I know that there's folx who don't have a lot a access to guidance in person. So, if I'm might suggest something to you, maybe you'd like to create something for the web that embodies the knowledge you've gained over the years. Something that could be linked from a particular topic whenever something funky comes up. Or maybe even an existing FAQ that you respect. I don't know. It might help you stay involved with a little less effort.
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atg200
Jul 12, 2002, 8:58 PM
Post #45 of 46
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Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 4317
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sorry wildtrail, length of climbing years doesn't necessarily have a lot of correlation to experience. i know people who have climbed for 12 years, but have taken a 10 year break in the middle. on the other hand, i could learn a tremendous amount from someone like chris mcnamara - who i don't think has been climbing for very much longer than me if at all. i know some people who have climbed a long time, but just aren't very safe or even bright. finally, my friend ben has climbed longer than i have, but has never climbed ice or aid. does the length of time still mean he knows more about those aspects of climbing than me? if you must know, i've been climbing for 8 years and have been backpacking and other mountain sports for 20 years. i've climbed on 4 continents, and like trad, aid, ice, and mountaineering.
still, i've never met, heard of, or associated anybody who has met or heard of this guy. i have no way of knowing if he is a 14 year old kid who has climbed in the gym twice aside from blind faith in one statement. the one post of his i have seen before is something i typically hear from new climbers, and is typically refuted by experienced climbers and the occasional qa engineer from a climbing equipment company.
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beethovenboy
Jul 14, 2002, 1:45 AM
Post #46 of 46
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Registered: May 7, 2002
Posts: 119
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I'm quite new to this game but, as with almost everything, a little common sense goes a long way. Needless to say, if something doesn't feel right, I don't do it unless I have someone personal show me the how's and why's.
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