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tradnomad
May 13, 2005, 11:54 AM
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But seriously... is it that far off?
Check out this article about the Eurocopter flying over Everest (they are planning to go up to 9000 or 10000m!!! :shock: ):
http://www.mounteverest.net/...olvedMay122005.shtml
If it can fly that high, how high could they land and pick someone off from? Will this become standard equipment for mountain SAR missions? Big change in the level of commitment if you could get flown off the summit of Everest (or Denali, etc.). Then you only have to make the climb up and if you had cash you could fly down drinking champagne!
So what do you think... would that be a good thing, or a bad thing?
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blondgecko
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May 13, 2005, 12:04 PM
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It would appear that this could soon become another option.
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lostdog
May 13, 2005, 12:11 PM
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very interesting, however, as many true alpinists have said, climbing to the summit is only half the battle, you still have to get down. so ethically, i would say that no it is cheating, but corporately, i'd have to say that i am quite sure that some rich crotch sniffer will get pulled up the mountain by some team of guides, and flown off of the top... eventually. also, if you ask me it is only inviting the potential for more tragedy, and disrespect for a beautiful masterpiece.
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wingnut
May 13, 2005, 12:54 PM
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It would be great for rescues but rescues only.
I don't think it should be used for anything else because, like you said blondgecko, some fat slob doesn't deserve to be on the summit of everest.
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tradmanclimbs
May 13, 2005, 12:56 PM
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I feel that if they did perfect chopper rescue at high altitude that it would seriously dumb down the routs. Kind of like retro bolting bold trad lines. the commitment and hazards of getting yourself down to lower altitude before rescue is possible are a big part of the chalange.
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blondgecko
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May 13, 2005, 12:58 PM
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In reply to: It would be great for rescues but rescues only. I don't think it should be used for anything else because, like you said blondgecko, some fat slob doesn't deserve to be on the summit of everest.
While I totally agree, I'm afraid I didn't say that. Thanks anyway!
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tattooed_climber
May 13, 2005, 1:54 PM
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too many rich people alread pay 12 sherpas to personally drag themselves up everest.......the more and more i read about everest, the more its starting to seem overrated due to the fact that people (rich yuppie people) are undermining the ethics and the experience by so-calling cheating
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thorne
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May 13, 2005, 2:02 PM
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Nice pic, Jay. LOL
I wonder if it'd hurt getting popped by the end of that cable, as it snapped in a bullwhip manner. There went my legs. Oooouuuuch!
Whatever happened to Mrs. MTV? Wasn't she going to be the first woman to bag a seven summits?
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crotch
May 13, 2005, 2:24 PM
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In reply to: I wonder if it'd hurt getting popped by the end of that cable, as it snapped in a bullwhip manner. There went my legs. Oooouuuuch!
It would hurt, not from the bullwhip effect, but from the massive static electrical charge that would accumulate on the cable. Think TASER. Just hope that thing doesn't shock your balls.
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fiend
May 13, 2005, 2:31 PM
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On the upside, new technology might finally allow them to remove all the oxygen canisters and other garbage.
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lambone
May 13, 2005, 2:36 PM
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What exactly is a "Fuzzy Logic System"??????? :?: :?
I wouldn't want to be in that stretcher!
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altelis
May 13, 2005, 3:10 PM
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there would be no worries about being in the stretcher---in the article, they said once a stretcher was attached and the stretcher was clear of objects the plane would fly larger and larger circles winching the stretcher in, so by the time you were close to the plane the circles would be so big it wouldn't present a problem....
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fiend
May 13, 2005, 3:26 PM
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In reply to: What exactly is a "Fuzzy Logic System"???????!
http://www.answers.com/fuzzy+logic&r=67
In reply to: A mathematical technique for dealing with imprecise data and problems that have many solutions rather than one. Although it is implemented in digital computers which ultimately make only yes-no decisions, fuzzy logic works with ranges of values, solving problems in a way that more resembles human logic. Fuzzy logic is used for solving problems with expert systems and realtime systems that must react to an imperfect environment of highly variable, volatile or unpredictable conditions. It "smoothes the edges" so to speak, circumventing abrupt changes in operation that could result from relying on traditional either-or and all-or-nothing logic. |
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modman
May 13, 2005, 3:58 PM
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Worthless Trivia 1:
If you were dropped off at the top of Everest w/o acclimating you would be dead in 5 Minutes!
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reno
May 13, 2005, 4:02 PM
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Don't count on the concept of helicopter rescue from the Summit. Weight/balance issues make it impossible with today's current helicopter technology.
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wingnut
May 13, 2005, 5:25 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: It would be great for rescues but rescues only. I don't think it should be used for anything else because, like you said blondgecko, some fat slob doesn't deserve to be on the summit of everest. While I totally agree, I'm afraid I didn't say that. Thanks anyway!
oops, meant to say lostdog.
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tradnomad
May 25, 2005, 12:45 PM
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So, it is possible...
http://www.mounteverest.net/...erestMay242005.shtml
They landed for ~2mins on the summit, and also on the South Col on an earlier flight. Plus flew some rescue missions (although I couldn't find any details)...
Gotta get me one of those and start a heli-ski operation in the Himalayas!! :D
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b0bra
May 25, 2005, 4:04 PM
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In reply to: It would appear that this could soon become another option.
Off-topic trivia...
Nate Saint and some others were actually later killed by the Waodani people but now after 40-50 years of interaction with missionaries, some of the people of their tribe are flying the planes to bring in supplies, etc.
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happiegrrrl
May 25, 2005, 8:45 PM
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I didn't read any of the articles, so ffel free to be obnoxious if the point was covered. But, what about acclimatization for the helicoptor pilot, going so high so quickly? 2 minutes and then down is one thing, but if they had to do rescues, it would take a longer time.
And, I have no doubt that some "guide service" (think Trump Himalayan Excursions") would come along and offer deluxe accomodations packages, selling the helicoptor pick up from the top as some sort of perk; after all, that's why one climbs - to get to the top - right?......
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reno
May 25, 2005, 8:48 PM
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It's not a major issue to put an oxygen tank in the helicopter and run a oxygen supply to the pilot via a face mask.
This would buy some extra time... hard to say how much, exactly, but probably 30-35 minutes.
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pheenixx
May 27, 2005, 4:46 PM
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In reply to: ... the aircraft demonstrated its capability to cope with the situation (…), sublimated by the magic of the place”.
Main Entry: 1sub·li·mate
2 : to divert the expression of (an instinctual desire or impulse) from its primitive form to one that is considered more socially or culturally acceptable ~ miriamwebster.com
INteresting choice of words..?? :shock:
Perhaps it is a great technological acomplishment (engineering wise). Personally, I hope they reserve it for rescue only situations (re: Everest), and it was just an ad stunt to sell more quality helicopters. The "noise pollution" and possible avalanches from continual "rich-boy/girl" landings" would be a shame. Just because there are helicopter tours into the Grand Canyon, doesn't detract from me wanting to hike in - but the continual noise is another annoying issue altogether - IMO.
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micahmcguire
May 27, 2005, 5:47 PM
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I'm not quite sure how to feel about this one. Granted climbing Everest is a life's accomplishment for some people. To be able to have a chopper land you at the top does seem like cheating, but then again, cheating what? What rule is really being broken? If some guy wants to pay an arm and a leg to land on the summit and hang out for a couple minutes, why shouldn't he be able to do that? Because other people find fullfillment in actually climbing it and want to impose the same standards of effort and reward on others? Because the climbers are jealous, or because they feel it cheapens their accomplishment? This is all self-imposed opinion. What if it were Edmund Hillary wanting to stand on the summit one more time in his extreme old age? Would that be OK? What if it were someone who knew they could never perform such a physical challenge, such as a parapelegic or some other condition? Should they be allowed to experience such an awesome thing?
Everest belongs to the world, not just to climbers, not just to the locals, not just to the governments in the area. With the advent of new technology, more people can enjoy the mountain in new ways. Provided that these methods leave no trace (which, btw, climbers have already trashed the place-what the hell kind of impact could a chopper have that a large team wouldn't?), who really cares? Everyone will still know who climbed the mountain, and who took a chopper to the top.
Granted landing on the top of such a peak would not be without its risks. I'm sure that, to a pilot or a passenger, such a flight and landing would be quite an adventure in and of itself. Not to mention it would be a very expensive undertaking. I think that permits for such summit landings should be given to a very limited number of people a year, and be very expensive...but not forbidden. I just can't find a really decent reason why not.
btw-oxygen would not be a problem. A well-fitting face-mask should be able to supply an indefinite supply of good O2 to the occupants of the helicopter. When my Grandpa was a bombadier in a B17 in WWII, they typically flew at high altitudes for extended periods of time, all in a non-pressurized plane with the windows open. Oxygen should be no problem.
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ben87
May 27, 2005, 5:58 PM
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the rescue applications for this seem pretty limited. How would this aircraft handle in tough weather. I'm know people run into trouble on everest even in the best weather - but aren't most rescues necessary in bad weather....?
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