|
|
|
|
renohandjams
May 24, 2005, 3:59 PM
Post #1 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 616
|
When I first saw hand jammies I thought that they were a dumb idea, and if anything they were cheating. Only a pussy would use rubber hand jams because he couldn't take the pain or he didn't have the skill to climb a vertical crack barehanded.
Last week we were climbing up by Donner pass and TradRack.com was doing a demo with some new gear and I tried the hand jams (sorry I don't remember who makes them) and they were awesome! I felt like I could run up a vertical crack and my hand jams were so solid I could lean back and rest on them and put all of my weight on my hands, taking some of the weight off of my side jammed feet.
I think I will still use tape on the back of my hands in the future, but for now I think the hand jammies are an excellent "training tool" for begining-moderate climbers who want to become the god of vertical cracks (Indian Creek, Utah???.....). I was wondering what other people thought, or if they had had a chance to try them. -Ben
|
|
|
|
|
jakewolf
May 24, 2005, 4:07 PM
Post #2 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2002
Posts: 81
|
I used to laugh at them when we would see some yahoo hanging on supercrack in handjammies, but really it is no more cheating than sticky rubber for your feet. I don't use them and I wear climbing shoes, but that is the level at which I challenge myself. The great thing about climbing is you can always go more pure and challenge your self moreif you wish. I feel I was wrong to laugh at those climbers I witnessed in hand jammies. I have cams, a rope, sticky rubber shoes, chalk. Whatever makes it more fun. The best climber is the one having the most fun.
|
|
|
|
|
jammer
May 24, 2005, 4:31 PM
Post #3 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2002
Posts: 3472
|
The only issue I have with mine is how much thicker your hands become when using them. I've used them only a couple of times and use tape for most of my climbs. I had to at least try them ... :oops:
|
|
|
|
|
tradmanclimbs
May 24, 2005, 4:37 PM
Post #4 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
|
They are totaly cheating and should not be used unless you have a legitimate injury or arthritis. Etc. For the non injured climber they will not make you a better climber they will just make you totaly helpless without them. Wearing shoes on your feet is an accepted part of climbing. putting sticky rubber on you hands in not. To do supercrack with hand jammies and then spray that you did it would be no different than conviently forgetting to mention that you took a bunch of hangs and yarded on gear :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
tradklime
May 24, 2005, 4:57 PM
Post #5 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 2, 2002
Posts: 1235
|
People who contend that they are cheating have not tried using them in enough circumstances. They are definitely helpful in some circumstances, and a huge hinderance in others. They change the size of your hand, which helps sometimes and hurts others. They are bulky and can really get in the way with any fist jams, and especially thin hands. If they wrapped your hands better, they may perform better, but they don't. Also, they all but completely remove sensativity, which can be a serious problem with tenuous jams.
Generally, I dislike climbing with them and find them to be more hinderance than helpful. From a purely performance perspective, tape is much more helpful, in my experience.
|
|
|
|
|
pipsqueekspire
May 24, 2005, 8:01 PM
Post #7 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2003
Posts: 222
|
I would like to point out that to spray that you did supercrack at all and fail to mention that you used cams and not the Hexes of the orginal ascent is just like the tradman jammie anaolgy. What was acceptable today vs yesterday is pointless unless you apply it across all aspects of climbing. So sticky rubber, cams, nylon rope are all cheating by those rules if you think about. I think hand jammies are NOT cheating nor do I care at all if you use them or not. I have tried them and they make life harder since they are so big in my opinion so maybe you should give the hand jammie use EXTRA credit!!!!
-pip
|
|
|
|
|
shouldbeworking
May 24, 2005, 8:10 PM
Post #8 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 19, 2004
Posts: 23
|
anyway- at least in the video I saw- Randy Leavitt used them for the first ascent of 'book of hate', ostensibly because he had already worn holes in his palms working the route... cheating? I don't think so.
|
|
|
|
|
skateman
May 24, 2005, 8:14 PM
Post #9 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
Posts: 186
|
Ditto what Jay,Jake and pipsqueek said. I had to try a pair. Perhaps I sized them incorrectly because they seem like more of a P.I.T.Arse than going Au Natural!
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
crackmd
May 24, 2005, 8:25 PM
Post #10 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2002
Posts: 444
|
Definitely not cheating to use handjammies. They will however limit your progress as a crackclimber since they are great for handjamming but horrible when cracks become thinhands sizes. I would suggest a thin layered tape glove or tape directly on the hands which despite all the purists' cries is not cheating either.
|
|
|
|
|
davidji
May 24, 2005, 8:26 PM
Post #11 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1776
|
In reply to: I have tried them and they make life harder since they are so big in my opinion so maybe you should give the hand jammie use EXTRA credit!!!!
There's a local sandstone climb that I've done bare, taped and gloved many times. Bare or taped I have to at least pay attention to the hand jams at the crux. Once when sweaty I slipped out. With the jammies, I could take a nap on one of the jams. They really stick to that sandstone.
|
|
|
|
|
mjroche
May 24, 2005, 8:39 PM
Post #12 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 5, 2004
Posts: 333
|
Never used them; don't have any idea if they help or hurt. But the bottom line seems to be this. They don't scar the rock, or otherwise impact any subsequent climbers enjoyment of a route, so they can't be cheating. Unless you measure your climbing not by how much you enjoyed or challenged yourself, but by comparing yourself to and competing with others. If that's why you climb, you might care that someone "sprayed" about doing Supercrack. Otherwise, who gives a sh!t whether someone used gloves.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
May 24, 2005, 8:42 PM
Post #13 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
Some notes:
Tape gloves and/or hand jammies primarily put something between you and the rock so abbrasion doesn't hurt as bad. In lieu of such devices, you can just learn to jam correctly without having to drag your hand into the jam (this has the added advantage of not wearing away the rock).
The secondary use of such things is to protect your hands from particularly sharp crystals that sometimes exist in otherwise perfect jams. As such, Hand Jammies especially are perfect for a place like Joshua Tree. Hand Jammies in sandstone just destroy the rock (vis. incredible hand crack). You can tell how long a person has been climbing in Indian Creek based on the thickness of their tape job. The thinner it is, the longer they've been there. Those without tape are probably lifers.
|
|
|
|
|
fire_eyes
May 24, 2005, 8:45 PM
Post #14 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 252
|
I lack enough hand strength to fully weight a jam. I find my jammies really helpful. But then, my jamming really sucks...
And I really could care less if they're cheating or not. Rules are made to be broken...
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
May 24, 2005, 8:48 PM
Post #15 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: anyway- at least in the video I saw- Randy Leavitt used them for the first ascent of 'book of hate', ostensibly because he had already worn holes in his palms working the route... cheating? I don't think so.
Hand jammies don't cover the palms.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
fear
May 24, 2005, 8:50 PM
Post #16 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 475
|
I must admit that I'm a hand-jammy "pussy". But for someone like me from the land of face climbs and roofs they work great for the 1 or 2 trips out west every year.
Hey they work for me... Just don't size them too small or too big or they become a huge problem....
-Fear
"Not leading SuperCrack anytime anyway"
|
|
|
|
|
samuel
May 24, 2005, 9:01 PM
Post #17 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2004
Posts: 97
|
So how about using washing gloves? The friction from these is intense on slopers.
Might look a bit stupid with a bunch of people with yellow gloves on the crag, but who cares?
|
|
|
|
|
dirtme
May 24, 2005, 10:08 PM
Post #18 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2003
Posts: 107
|
I used them when I first started crack climbing 3-4 years ago. I primarily climb in Yosemite and at first the hand jammies were a god send. Hand cracks like Sacherer, Reed's and Outer Limits became pretty dang easy with the jammies on. You just throw in a hand or fist and yard on it. It wasn't until I started advancing to harder routes, which were mostly fingers that I tossed the jammies. Also by the time I started doing harder routes I found my hand jamming technique improved as well. So, now I'm sans jammies and/or tape unless I'm at Indian Creek or Jtree.
By far the worst thing about hand jammies is the goop that builds up after a day of climbing. Nasty!
Cheating? Who in the heck cares?
|
|
|
|
|
davidji
May 24, 2005, 10:23 PM
Post #19 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1776
|
In reply to: I used them when I first started crack climbing 3-4 years ago. I primarily climb in Yosemite and at first the hand jammies were a god send. Hand cracks like Sacherer, Reed's and Outer Limits became pretty dang easy with the jammies on. |
|
|
|
|
pbcowboy77
May 24, 2005, 10:58 PM
Post #20 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2002
Posts: 574
|
I didn't even read any posts just the subject.
they are just plain GAY
|
|
|
|
|
megableem
May 24, 2005, 11:47 PM
Post #21 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 13, 2004
Posts: 160
|
.
|
|
|
|
|
papi
May 24, 2005, 11:59 PM
Post #22 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 10, 2005
Posts: 14
|
For what its worth,
I have a pair I bought after countless rolls of tape were wasted on my 45 degree overhung adjustable crack machine. They are great for training on the crack machine, I don't have to take the time to tape up or waste tape, but I have not and would not wear them on real rock, it would take all the fun out of it.
|
|
|
|
|
philbox
Moderator
May 25, 2005, 12:14 AM
Post #23 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 13105
|
First comment is that I loooooove crack climbing. I learnt to climb on cracks and I did not used to wear tape gloves or use chalk. I did use shoes though. Over time I`ve tried all sorts of combinations of shoes/ no shoes/ chalk/ no chalk, tape gloves no tape gloves and lastly Hand Jammies.
I apreciate their usefulness in certain circumstances particularly in thin fingers in the back of smooth v grooves. Hand Jammies rock for that application. It makes that horrid crack feel like a hand jamb. Often I will scamper up a hand jamb in bare feet and no chalk so I could never be accused of being non traditional. I`ve also of late been trying to do all my crack climbing with only passive gear.
On the odd occasion I will drag out the Hand Jammies and give them a run. They are also very useful on a hot spoogey day when you feel that every jamb will spooge out of the crack due to the humidity and heat in the air.
They are merely another tool to be used on the apropriate occasion.
|
|
|
|
|
justhavefun
May 25, 2005, 12:45 AM
Post #24 of 34
(5495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 81
|
I don't think I ever would have learnt to climb cracks if it weren't for hand jammies. Coming from the gym, I had no idea what a hand jam was my first trip to Joshua Tree. Sure, I knew about the concept, but I didn't have any technique. My first trip, I couldn't jam at all because it hurt too much. I ended up turning a 5.7 crack into a 5.10 face climb...
After I borrowed a pair of the jammies, I was able to at least understand the way you are supposed to place your hand and the mechanics of how a jam works, without ripping my skin to shreds on the quartz crystals while I figured it all out. For learning, I think they're invaluable. You can stick a marginal jam and have it stay decently put while you are wearing the jammies. I bought a pair of my own and used them to practice.
Just about a month ago I switched to tape and had to learn to jam all over again. The jams that would have been solid with the jammies now need subtle adjustments to them to make them stick. Once I (mostly) figured that out, I switched to not using tape at all, and that's what I'm working on now -- being able to jam without bleeding.
I'm a big fan of the jammies. They are great for learning, don't tear up your hands, and can help you stick jams that might otherwise slip out. But I think it's a good idea to learn how to jam without the jammies too, because it has made me a better climber.
|
|
|
|
|
takanhase
May 25, 2005, 2:44 AM
Post #25 of 34
(5492 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2004
Posts: 141
|
I have used mine on three climbs, the first time I used them I thought they where a cool concept. the second time I made it half way up the route and tossed them off due to the fact that I couldint get any purchase because my hands wouldint fit the crack. and the third time they worked magic. they are also great tools if you work in an industry where you need to minimise the hand scabbs. just my $0.02
Mike
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
