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Bad Placement, Yay or Nay???
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May 28, 2005, 9:08 PM
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Bad Placement, Yay or Nay???
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It was a purdy day today so I decided to go climbing, I called up my buddy and we headed off to Hawksbill. We both roped up, it was a 10b I think and I was leading. So I started up the rock, good pro hear and there, but about 20-25 feet up I stoped because it looked like a cruxy section and I couldnt see any decent pro. The pro below my feet was great but I didnt want to run it out, so I got a half ass nut in a flaring crack above my head, it looked shi*y and I knew it, but I figured that a bad placement was better than no placement right? So anyway I started up the shallow seam, lie backing a little and smearing hear and there, all of a sudden my foot slid off the shallow crack when I was in a lie-back. I was prepared, so I hopped off the rock and the bad nut caught me just long enough for me to relax and put my feet on the rock, then all of a sudden it poped and sent my feet straight up over my head, and my head whiped into the rock about 10 feet down. Knocked me out for a sec, I woke up a second later upside down looking straight into my buddy Phil's shocked holly crap what the hell happend expression. Blood oozing down my neck and an egg sized knot on my head. I wasnt bad thank God so after I talked Phil into it we finished the climb. Anyway my queston:
Better to take a really long prepared fall or...
Possibly take an unprepared fall?

Bad placement, Yay or Nay.

~Russ


zozo


May 28, 2005, 9:10 PM
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Bad placement, Yay or Nay.


Yay.


musicman


May 28, 2005, 9:17 PM
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i haven't done tons of trad climbing, but have fallen on gear and done some leads. bad is a relative term, everything in climbing is. jugs on 5.12's can be crux holds on 5.11's. but overall i would say yay.


pipsqueekspire


May 28, 2005, 10:13 PM
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Better to wear a helmet is my guess.


I'd have placed the piece- bummer it popped. When it gets sketchy or run out I place two pieces in a row only inches apart. Would that have helped?

-pip


Partner gunksgoer


May 29, 2005, 2:38 AM
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:idea: :idea: :idea: WEAR A FUCKING HELMET! :idea: :idea: :idea:

(glad to hear you werent hurt, be safe) -ws


andrewph


May 29, 2005, 3:04 AM
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I'd say Yay something is better than nothing. Even with better gear wierd stuff can sometimes happen. In this case sure it may have been the placements fault but in another situation.... who know's maybe that brief stop could have stopped something else happening.

I would say the best thing you can learn from that experiance is as others have said

Wear a helmet..

you never know what might happen on a route!

Andy


shear


May 29, 2005, 6:34 AM
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yep...helmet wouldve stopped the headbashing into the rock.

if the gear is sketch...place 2 pieces next to each other, preferably opposing if you can do it to distribute the weight.


dingus


May 29, 2005, 9:04 AM
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If you hadn't placed that bogus piece would you have still gone for it or backed off and reassessed?

DMT


tarsier


May 29, 2005, 11:01 AM
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Your sketchy placement slowed you down a lot, and saved you and everything else in your system from even more deceleration-induced stress. The fact that it was (probably?) responsible for you inverting and bumping your head is a bit analogous to someone suffering injuries in an auto accident because their seatbelt trapped them.


micronut


May 29, 2005, 11:15 AM
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If you hadn't placed that bogus piece would you have still gone for it or backed off and reassessed?

DMT

i gotta tell a story. my friend was trying to lead Extra Dry at the back of Lake Louise, AB. She was fairly in-experienced, but climbing hard and really wanting to get better. Anyway, she climbs up, places a bogus piece, clips it, and then gets scared and starts downclimbing. Only problem, her rope is still clipped through the top, bad piece. so as she downclimbs, more rope is going out, making for some serious danger. It became an ugly situation of "can't go up, can't go down." Finially we coached her back to her last good piece, had her back it up, clip to it, untie and pull the rope through the funky high piece, re-tie and get lowered. I learned something right there, don't clip shitty gear.

also, you putting your feet against the wall and leaning back on your piece proabally popped it when the angle of pull changed.


samuel


May 29, 2005, 1:32 PM
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It's always better to fall alone.

But of course, it depends on how shitty it is. That one actually held your fall (so can't be that shitty), but it probably gave you more rope out for your second fall aswell.

I would say that if the bad pro is all you got, you will have to use it.
If it's a clean fall, skip it.


gunkiemike


May 29, 2005, 2:04 PM
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Yay, nay... or spray?


brutusofwyde


May 29, 2005, 3:03 PM
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Yay, nay... or spray?

I'm a frayed knot.


kpj240789


May 29, 2005, 4:54 PM
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Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


Partner angry


May 29, 2005, 5:32 PM
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it's fine

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=52301


kobaz


May 29, 2005, 5:41 PM
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Haha, I remember that thread. The conslusion was that placement was bogus... right?


tradrenn


Jun 1, 2005, 11:29 AM
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Bad placement, Yay or Nay.

After reading your story "YAY"
and
Wear/Get a helmet.

If you don't like wearing a helmet than just use it to climb and when you bringing your second up, take it off ( not that I would recommended, but I do that on one pitch climbs )


onbelay510


Jun 1, 2005, 11:53 AM
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A helmet is a must, and a Screamer probably wouldn't have hurt either.


onbelay510


Jun 1, 2005, 11:55 AM
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A helmet is a must and a Screamer probably wouldn't have hurt either.


onbelay510


Jun 1, 2005, 12:11 PM
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Oops, sorry


cchildre


Jun 1, 2005, 12:30 PM
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Head placement - !No Helment! - Bad! ESP while on trad gear!
Gear placement - Bad, but I would rather take the tiered fall in lieu of one big whipper. IMO.

When playing fewtball is important to wear jow fuwtbaw heawmaet or jew get damebramage! I fewgawt my heawmaet and I's gawt damesbramage!


brianinslc


Jun 1, 2005, 12:54 PM
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In reply to:
Better to take a really long prepared fall or...
Possibly take an unprepared fall?
Bad placement, Yay or Nay.

Nay. No good gear = do not fall.

If you're at or near your limit, and you can't get good pro, bail off.

What would ANAM say?

"Inexperienced climber, exceeding abilities, poor gear placement, lack of safety gear (helmet)..."

Cheers!

Brian in SLC


lithophiliac


Jun 1, 2005, 1:19 PM
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Something to also keep in mind. If you place a crap piece above your head and fall while still below it, you have actually made matters worse than just running it out over the good piece at your feet (you will have more rope out when the piece fails and fall further). Plus, you may also fill a needed handhold with the crap gear making the crux harder. Also, the crappy placement may waste a piece that you will need higher on the climb. When in doubt, pull it out :shock: .


sonso45


Jun 1, 2005, 1:52 PM
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Nay, if you are only 25' up and can't climb solidly to a good placement, downclimb or lower from your last piece. M


gnat


Jun 1, 2005, 2:05 PM
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I was prepared, so I hopped off the rock and the bad nut caught me just long enough for me to relax and put my feet on the rock,

Seems like you made several mistakes, the funky piece not being one of them.

Exactly why did you hop off the rock? Because you were "prepared"? [To] Just cause your foot slipped is no reason to jump off. Actually, with funky gear, you should try even harder to not fall.


Relax?????

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