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ropegirl
Jul 10, 2002, 5:18 PM
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My leader took a fall last night in the gym and my brake hand got a nasty rope burn. The problem was that the rope we were using had a fairly narrow diameter (10 mm) and the ATC I was using was probably a little too wide for it. Consequently, the rope slipped through my brake hand too quickly at the start of the fall and burned me. I actually ended up having to let my partner all the way down because my hand was too injured to continue belaying him. We've never had this problem using thicker (10.5 and 11.5 mm) ropes.
So here's my warning: Make sure your belay device is sized appropriately for your rope diameter, especially if your partner is on the heavy side. Additionally, keep in mind that if you buy a stretchier rope, it will thin down to less than its original diameter as it gets older and more stretched out. Thin ropes make it easy for a leader to pull up rope, but it can spell trouble for the belayer during a fall. Given the choice between an easy up-pull and a safe fall, I'd recommend opting for the latter.
So here's my question: Besides ice, has anybody got advice for treating a rope burn?
[ This Message was edited by: ropegirl on 2002-07-10 10:19 ]
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rocknpowda
Jul 10, 2002, 5:31 PM
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I don't think they make different sizes of belay devices for different sizes of ropes. The key is to PAY ATTENTION and not let any rope slip through your hands to begin with. Most, if not all, belay devices will work fine with a 10mm rope-you just have to be on it.
My buddy just took a fall outside and his belayer wasn't paying attention and he fell a little ways before his belayer stopped him. Not in time however to keep him from gashing his arm open and sending him to the hospital for about 30 stitches. I don't know how the belayer's hands are, but it could have been prevented if his belayer was paying attention.
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jt512
Jul 10, 2002, 5:36 PM
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I agree with rocknpowda. ATCs are compatible with 10 mm and thinner ropes.
-Jay
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woodse
Jul 10, 2002, 5:43 PM
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I agree with the previous 2 posts.
Always watch the climber you are belaying, if he/she is looking shakey have the the rope locked off aggressively, and keep a tight grip on it. If you are belaying a heavier climber then you should anchor yourself. Too many people use poor belaying technique by not paying attention to what they are doing. Sorry to say, it sounds like this injury was more than preventable.
As for your burn there are plenty of creams and sprays available, most important is to keep it clean, this means keeping it bandaged and changing the bandages often. Use soap and water to wash the burns then apply the cream and bandages.
woodsE
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billcoe_
Jul 10, 2002, 6:57 PM
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Not to disagree with all of these fine folks, and I sure as hell son't want to take on the Marines fer gosh sakes: but Ropegirl, try using 2 carabiners instead of 1 in this situation. They can be non-locking if you oppose AND reverse them, but make sure they are the same size of this will not work.
Try this and tell your climber to get his heavy lard ass back up there where it belongs.
Additionally, atcs can be different sizes. When Lowe first introduced the Tuber, you almost couldn't get a 11mm into it, and if you could it was difficult to move the rope. Later they made it larger. I own both of the Lowe Tubers and speak with direct knowledge on this. (BTW, I still have my old dual sized Sticht plate too!!)
As a carrier of said lard ass myself, I can attest to what weight can do to your poor belayer. Last weekend I was fortunate to climb some easy topropes with Nikegirl and Ravens wing jim. For Nike girl, (a trim and Petite young lady) I tied off the rope to a boulder on the ground so she would not launch the 20 feet up when my wide butt fell off, and it worked!! You might keep that on the table in the future to.
Happy climbing:
Bill Coe_ (underscore at end)
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billcoe_
Jul 10, 2002, 7:06 PM
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Opps, just went back and read your post. Seems none of us saw the question, at least nobody really answered it! We must have all been thinking of the last time we got our sorry asses dropped!
You want to know what works on a burn. Nothing well, unfortunatly, but as it can get infected easilly, use Neosporin (a topical antibiotic) and now pay attention here, there are 2 varieties of Neosporin: get the one with the painkiller in it. It really will help.
So 2 points only:
2 caribiners, locking prefered or opposed and reversed -SAME SIZE!!
Neosporin with pain relief in it.
Regards
Billcoe_ underscore!:-)
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wildtrail
Jul 10, 2002, 7:25 PM
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Iddunno? I use the ATC and have never had problems like that. I have a 9.4 that works great through it and that is the smallest single you can get. Maybe, it surpised you? Again, iddunno?
Steve
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ropegirl
Jul 10, 2002, 7:40 PM
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JEEZ, People! Settle down! Y'all make some big assumptions and jump to the wrong conclusions.
Just to clarify... I'm NOT a moron. I WAS paying attention and actually knew my leader was going to fall before he knew it himself -- I saw him miss a foothold. I clamped down and slammed my brake hand down behind my butt - textbook. However, my partner is a heavy guy so the rope slid a bit before it locked off -- that's when I got burned. I DIDN'T DROP HIM. I arrested his fall then let him down to the floor as gently as a feather. But I got hurt in the process.
I just wanted to pass along a warning to those who might not take this possibility into consideration.
FYI, there ARE belay devices with narrower openings than the ATC's. I've used them before and they work great for the 9.5 and 10 mm ropes.
Thanks to those of you with burn remedies.
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jt512
Jul 10, 2002, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
I clamped down and slammed my brake hand down behind my butt - textbook.
Maybe you need to switch from the Belaying 101 textbook to the Belaying 201 textbook. Instead of clamping your hand down by your butt and letting the rope slide thru it, keep your hand in one place on the rope as rope gets pulled thru the device. A belay glove would help, too.
-Jay
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rocknpowda
Jul 10, 2002, 10:28 PM
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Sorry,
There is a device out on the market called the airbrake, I don't know who makes it, that totally sucks for belaying regular sized ropes so it should work good for thin ropes.
About the burns: constant neosporin and a dressing that allows airflow but doesn't dry it out will probably work good.
To Everyone: PAY ATTENTION . . . i just found out that my buddy with the stitches also shattered his heel becuase his belayer wasn't paying attention. (See earlier post for what I am refering to)
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beyond_gravity
Jul 10, 2002, 10:34 PM
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It could also be poor technique. I've seen people pull the rope threw, and just pinch and slide stright above the device insted of bringing it into the locking position to do so. I've also seen people belay with there tumb pointing away from the device. Bad Bad Bad!
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jt512
Jul 10, 2002, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
It could also be poor technique. I've seen people pull the rope threw, and just pinch and slide stright above the device insted of bringing it into the locking position to do so.
Belaying 201 - Chapter 2:
When belaying a leader, good sport climbing belayers do not lock off the rope each time the feed rope thru the device. Instead, they keep the ropes in front of them at about a 45 degree angle from each other. This lets the belayer respond more flexibly to the leader's needs. With the ropes at 45 degrees you can much more quickly take in or pay out rope than when you've got the rope locked off, and you can still lock off quickly if your partner falls.
-Jay
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okieterry
Jul 12, 2002, 9:38 PM
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I think bilcoe nailed it, I've been using two biners for awhile while belaying and rappelling with my ATC and skinny ropes.
One of the best pieces of advice that I know with burns, road rash, etc. is to keep the wound covered. I used to think that fresh air did it good but I have found that putting neosporin and covering the wound really seems to speed up the healing time.
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missedyno
Jul 12, 2002, 10:36 PM
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i like aloe vera on my rope burns.
now to address the off the initial topic topic here....
i climb on 9.7mm ropes, and use an atc. never had the rope just "slip through". be sure that with any rope you feed through, you lock it off by holding the rope (brake hand) down towards your hip. this increases the friction, and, therefore, safety!
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billcoe_
Jul 15, 2002, 7:46 PM
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Ropegirl, you get a 10 from billcoe_ for sharing a potential problem with us all.
I PM'ed you and would like to see how well the 2 carabiners instead of 1 worked for you.
By now your hand has healed (but all the "dropping your partner" allegations on this site may have left a psysic wound- hey, Psysic Wound, isn't that a route?)
Thanks again for sharing:
BillCoe
PS edited for poor spelling. Dohhhh!!
[ This Message was edited by: billcoe_ on 2002-07-31 21:34 ]
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climbinganne
Jul 17, 2002, 1:44 AM
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Calcanial fracture, pete??? Ouch, but he'll be climbing before skiing season!!!
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apollodorus
Jul 17, 2002, 2:03 AM
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I'm too lazy to look up what they call these things, but the newer ATCs have a tapered slot that the rope goes into. That way, it will work with different sized ropes. Also, because the rope goes into a tapered slot, it is easier to lock it off in a fall by pulling back. The commercial ATCs that have these slots all seem to have names that relate to teeth, or sharks, or something.
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wiegs
Jul 17, 2002, 2:45 AM
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The belay device you are talking about fits in the same category as the Black Diamond ATC, that is, tube belay devices. It is not technically an ATC or the "new" ATC, but it is similar in the fact that it is a tube belay device. It is called the Trango Jaws. I'm sure you can find a picture if you want to see it. Or if you're really lazy, I can find one and link it for ya. Just let me know....
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kevlar
Jul 29, 2002, 12:09 AM
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wooooooooweeeeeeeeee....smack my a$$....let me know where your gym is and i will be the guy out front selling " GLOVES" a burn can scar for life...not just you ...call me stupid...but what about a glove and helmet in the gym...lol
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rollingstone
Aug 1, 2002, 10:59 PM
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Ropegirl, I burned my hands in June by grabbing rope as I fell (see Acidents and Injuries forum), and they are only now (8-1-02) really healed up. Neosporin, plenty of clean air, and time will heal them.
Also, belay (and maybe next time I will lead also) with gloves.
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Stew242
Jan 25, 2007, 5:37 AM
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Warning: n00b post!
I know I'm digging up an old thread, but I was searching for belaying tips and found this thread. I don't understand how 2 carabiners would help when using a rope with a smaller diameter. Could someone explain this to me please? Thanks!
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majid_sabet
Jan 25, 2007, 6:40 AM
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cost $15
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
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styleboy
Jan 25, 2007, 7:07 AM
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Burns.. That is exactly why I have an Aloe plant in my house. Other than that you really don't need much for burns. Maybe a little lotion here and there but I would say just keep it clean and leave it alone.
Also make sure to leave any blisters alone. This is your bodys way of healing the wound in it's own super clean bubble house. Keep an eye out for infection and if it gets real nasty, take a trip to the doc.
When your burn heals up, check out a product called Mederma. It's great for clearing up scars.
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drfelatio
Jan 25, 2007, 9:22 AM
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Stew242 wrote: Warning: n00b post! I know I'm digging up an old thread, but I was searching for belaying tips and found this thread. I don't understand how 2 carabiners would help when using a rope with a smaller diameter. Could someone explain this to me please? Thanks!
Extra Biner = Extra friction = Greater Stopping Power
But with today's belay devices, the extra biner isn't really needed. Black Diamond's ATC-XP and Trango's Cinch are among some of the newer devices that can easily and safely accept thinner ropes.
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