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genlock
Jun 30, 2002, 7:50 PM
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Ok..
I'm very close to go on my first REAL outdoor lead climb (ie a full pitch, not only a few feet.. ) and that is, if I can find a RELIABLE partner... not those that ditches you a few hours before you leave..
anyways..
I'm very concerned about the number of biners I need to rack stuff and not runnung short on the rock.
Here's an overview of what my rack is...
1 set of hexes
1 set of nuts
9 quickdraws
+ cordolette, webbing and slings, belay/rappel device.
4 locking biner ( 1 DMM belay master, 1 airlock screw and 2 austral by LuCKY )
.. once I'm ready to climb, I have 4 maybe 5 free biner assuming that I use toy for chalkbag, nut tool and carry short sling aroung my shoulder.
Do I really need 1 biner PER pro for racking purposes AND on the pitch?
and do any of you uses toy biner for "non-climbing"-climbing purposes? ( like attaching your chalk bag? nut tool? slings?, webbing? to your harness ?
- Genlock
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punk
Jun 30, 2002, 8:51 PM
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Go and get six keylock biners and rack each group of pro, on three separate biner by size. small, medium and large. Also u might want 6 free biners
(BTW you do have 2 biners on each of your QD (total 18)…right?)
Hope it helped
Climb safe
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-06-30 14:05 ]
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dustinap
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Jun 30, 2002, 9:00 PM
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Set of hexes you'll probably want to rack them on 3-5 biners
1-2 biners for nuts
2 biners for each quickdraw or sling,
1-2 cams per biner[for free climbing]
1 biner for belay device[locker]
one locker for each cord, or web-o-lett
The normal biner rack would probably look like this.
10-15 'biners for racking gear
20 biners for slings/quickdraws
3 lockers.
For a nut tool, I have one with a built in carabiner type thing made by Omega.
It can be a good idea to use small webbing that you can use to backup a rappel in an emergency for your chalkbag. I don't see the point in carrying a fake carabiner up with you, unless you HAVE to.
[ This Message was edited by: dustinap on 2002-06-30 16:57 ]
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billcoe_
Jul 9, 2002, 5:04 AM
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Good advice from Dustinap and Punk. May I add that the amount of Carabiners you will need will depend on the routes you will be doing. Short and easy, less pro, eh? Longer and harder, more.
I would recommend you tend to take too much, not too little, until you get it figured out. At the start, put in more pro, not less. If you put in a nut that looks dubious, and are on a good stance, put in another one if there is a place for it and you have it to spare. Climb easier routes than you normally do until you start to get a feel for your own skill and temperment. There is a lot of variation involved in leading cracks, both between different people and within yourself at different times. One day you might walk up a route, place 7 pieces, kick ass and feel invincable. The next week you struggle and place 16 pieces and wonder how you did it before.
Over time you'll figure yourself out, but especially at the start, error on the side of caution.
You might consider looking for a partner with enough pro to complimant your rack. Reliability is less important than his-her skill level. More is better. Much Much better:-)
BTW, I personally like to have lots of full length runners - especially on long cracks and multi-pitch climbs. You can always shorten them, but the reverse is not true with quickdraws.
Take care and have fun (jeese, I hope I don't sound like your dad there)
Regards;
Bill
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apollodorus
Jul 9, 2002, 5:21 AM
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Those Barbie Biners are great for water bottles, chalk bags, nut tools, and stuff like that.
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wildtrail
Jul 9, 2002, 6:07 AM
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I'm with Billcoe.
All depends. I actually own more biners than hardware. I have two and a half sets of nuts, full on hexes (plus double on the big ones), all the tri-cams, and a few misc. pieces. I own some cams, but I believe they are cheating (they were given as a gift). So, I have about 50some pieces, not including my brassies and other aid gear. I have about 100 biners.
Depends on the route(s). Like billcoe said.
If I have a long route that eats pro, I rack my nuts three to a biner and carry a bunch of free biners.
I tend not to get to confident in my skills, so I never run anything out if I can help it. I, literally, place every six feet. Why not? It's safer and I don't mind the extra few pounds.
Its all preference in that boat. Other than that, what is the route(s) like. Find that out, read the beta, ask some questions.
I say a whipper, which I have taken big, are for the stupid. Better stop every six to eight feet and put one or two in. Your body will thank you for it.
Steve
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stevematthys
Jul 9, 2002, 5:51 PM
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here is the number of free biners and slings and draws i got:
-10 slings with 2 biners ber sling
-7 quickdraws
-9 free non-locking biners
-6 free locking biners
i rack all half my nuts on one oval and the other half on another oval. all the hexes on one oval, my tricams on one oval, cams by themselves. i use real biners for all my gear.
hope that helps you out
[ This Message was edited by: stevematthys on 2002-07-09 10:52 ]
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transse
Jul 10, 2002, 4:11 PM
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The previous post have given you great ideas about biners. The only thing I would recommend that I haven't read is to drop the "toy" biner. I don't carry them for fear one day I will have to use it. Make the weight worth it, carry only full strength gear. If you have to carry the biner anyway carry one worth its weight.
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cedk
Jul 10, 2002, 5:41 PM
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Genlock:
My oppinions. Buy more 'biners and some 24'' runners. I know it sucks to spend money. Find ways to economize if you have to. Go donate plasma then have dinner at the Jesus House. If you don't like that idea try and convince your partner to contribute to the rack. Have him buy 5 or 6 ovals. Tell him some horror stories of dropped belay devices and painful dulfersitz rappels so he'll want them anyway for a carbiner brake. You can tie your own runners for very little money. 5 feet of one inch tubular webbing will give you one runner.
Once you've got your gear together experiment with different racking systems but I like the way Stevemathys does his.
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billcoe_
Jul 11, 2002, 5:31 AM
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Genlock, sounds like hooking up with wildtrail is the solution for you. He's got 100 biners!!!! Sounds like he knows what he's doing too, which is much more important than how many biners you have.
Two of the best climbers in this area 15 years ago (Alan Lester and Alan Watts) rarely ran it out more than 6 to 8 feet unless they had to, even on 5.13+. (OK OK - Watts would regularly run up routes unroped, and Lester has some bold first ascents too, but thats not what I'm discussing here, I'm trying to make a point, give me some artistic license will ya)
I would definately tie into a rope with Wildtrail, especially if he brought HIS biners
I used to have almost 75, but they keep disappearing - must be alzheimers, I don't know where they are any more than I can find the 1 missing sock from each pair. You don't need that many though. Hey, I did throw some of my early Eiger and Liberty ovals away, the strength test new on those was less than 2000 lbs. Makes you wonder what they would have tested out to used.
Replaced them with Petzel Spirits 5600 lb test.....unnnnnmmmmm nicccccccccceeeee!!!
Bill
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timpanogos
Jul 13, 2002, 5:23 PM
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When I recently started to practice and apply some "Advanced Climbing Anchors" (John Longs book) I found my 12 quickdraws, 8 runners and handfull of lose biners disapate very quickly.
Not only do you need to consider how much pro you might place on the pitch - but you will need enough gear for 2 belay stations.
If both belay stations were minimal - bottom has 4 placements (3 downward, 1 zipper) and top has 3 downward placements (zipper can be added when follower hits top) you will need 7 QDs (or equiventlant biners and runners) and 2 cord-o-lets for these two anchors alone.
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drac
Jul 13, 2002, 5:54 PM
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GENLOCK, I agree with BillCoe. When leading trad, more runners (60cm 24'')is best. In my experience I can't have enough (only $3.50). On a 100'route I would have about 10 24'' runners, figure each piece of pro will take one carabiner from pro to runner and one carabiner from pro to rope. I consider myself a begninig leader and I say 20 biners ( considering placement every 10')is a good idea. Even tough you might not place every 10', When just starting more is better. It's amazing how fast I use biners and pro up. Climb well below your skill on 1st lead and "zip it up". Don't forget a few lockers for the anchor and belay. Hope it helps.
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genlock
Jul 13, 2002, 6:54 PM
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Registered: Apr 22, 2002
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Thanks a lot to all of you guys!
I guess that I'm not totally ready yet ( equipment wise)
From what I understand the rule of thumb would be :
Rope lenght divided by 10 (every ten feet) = the average number of 24" slings / draws needed for the climb + (same number times 2 = number of biners)+ about 6 to 10 per belay station (so times 2, top and bottom)
Wow...
thanks guys!
- genlock
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