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cchildre
Jun 22, 2005, 6:29 PM
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Registered: May 5, 2004
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Can I take a sling and girth it to another sling, such as on a cam or hex, and keep strengh rating safe?
Leading trad and trying to improve efficiency. I keep cams and hexs set 2-3 per beaner. Place pro, unclip beaner with unused pro back to harness and girth a sling to sling to extend (if needed of corse). Saves me a excess beaner in the setup. This system allows me to carry all my slings over the shoulder with a single beaner and not on my harness or OTS gear strap. Thoughts or questions?
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boredatwork
Jun 22, 2005, 6:38 PM
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Registered: May 10, 2005
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I use this method all the time and have taken a fall on it, no problems. Plus if generate over 22KN of force to brake a sling, you have more to worry about then your gear holding.
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josephgdawson
Jun 22, 2005, 6:41 PM
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Registered: Jan 20, 2004
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It is cool to do that.
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gunked
Jun 23, 2005, 4:22 AM
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Yeah, it's fine.
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steadymatrock
Jun 23, 2005, 4:48 AM
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Registered: Feb 21, 2005
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No Its not fine...but its ok if your fall doesn't generate more than 22kn force.A hitch or a knot on slings will reduce the strength by 30%.
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atpeaceinbozeman
Jun 23, 2005, 4:58 AM
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In reply to: No Its not fine...but its ok if your fall doesn't generate more than 22kn force.A hitch or a knot on slings will reduce the strength by 30%.
In reply to: I use this method all the time and have taken a fall on it, no problems. Plus if generate over 22KN of force to brake a sling, you have more to worry about then your gear holding.
http://forumspile.com/...an_beat_up_yours.gif
I got five bucks on the favorite
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ricardol
Jun 23, 2005, 5:58 AM
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
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its fine .. but i doubt it would be fast or more efficient that using a biner between the cam and the sling .. (or hex and sling) ..
racking more than one cam per biner is also a recipe for slower climbing .. not to mention that if you drop one biner you'll loose more than one piece.
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euroford
Jun 23, 2005, 12:30 PM
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being more efficiant, many times means having more biners not less. its best that you rack one cam per biner and have slings setup with two biners, that way you don't have to bother wasting time dealing with girth hitches, and nor do you waste time retrieving an unused biner hanging on a cam sling, just let it hang there.
to be more efficiant, place pro, clip pro, clip rope, climb climb climb. don't waste time screwing with gear. if you want the rack to weigh less, first of all build it out of high quality lightweight pieces, then try to leave as much of it on the ground as possable.
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bill413
Jun 23, 2005, 1:23 PM
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Registered: Oct 19, 2004
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1) It's ok - although I'm uncomfortable girth hitching slings of different compositions or thicknesses together.
2) It's a real pain for the second.
As a leader, you can do the girth hitch one handed - put the piece in, grab the sling off your shoulder, thread it through & clip.
It is really difficult to undo this one handed....thus your second now has to contend with a piece that they are going to rack with a dangling sling - get up to the belay (or a hands free stance) and undo it before you can re-rack the piece. So, I think that in terms of team efficiency it is worse. Use the biner.
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azrockclimber
Jun 23, 2005, 1:24 PM
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Registered: Jan 28, 2005
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sling to biner to sling... is faster,easier, and stronger. The way I rack my slings there is little chance that I am gonna girth hitch instead of clipping another sling in.
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brutusofwyde
Jun 24, 2005, 10:14 PM
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Registered: Nov 3, 2002
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In reply to: being more efficiant, many times means having more biners not less. its best that you rack one cam per biner and have slings setup with two biners, that way you don't have to bother wasting time dealing with girth hitches, and nor do you waste time retrieving an unused biner hanging on a cam sling, just let it hang there.
Disagree, at least with respect to backcountry travel on difficult routes. The bottom line with respect to carabiners and efficiency is not "more" nor is it "less," it is having enough. If you carry 10 shoulder-length runners over your shoulder, with two carabiners on each, you will be slowed by tangles as you try to get the slings off your shoulder, and you WILL be carrying much more weight than necessary.
Placing gear on such routes ideally occurs at rest stances, when I'm recovering from one hard section and resting up for the next. Or, of the gear will need to be placed in the next hard section, it is prepared before I leave the last rest up into the crux.
On easier ground, leaving the carabiners on the slings will work, but generally not for more than 5 or so over-the-shoulder slings. Rack the rest doubled or tripled with a carabiner on each end.
In reply to: then try to leave as much of it on the ground as possable.
Try to leave as much of it at home as possible. Take only what you know you need, and experiment with the system at local crags, get it dialed before you and your partner are 30+ miles into the backcountry.
Girth hitching slings together has its place: conserving carabiners. Avoiding loading carabiners over edges. When using the piece to route the rope away from loose blocks and sharp edges. The point is, there is no right answer for every situation, regardless of what some self-proclaimed experts will tell you... Everyone has their personal preferences.
It is, however, important to know your rack insides out and backwards, from each and every carabiner and sling to the uses, pros and cons of every nut and cam. I've seen good backcountry leaders reach behind their back on the gear sling and select the right piece without looking at it.
I've seen leaders immediately notice if a piece is missing and unaccounted-for; from a rack of 20 cams and 15 nuts, , during a 30-second changeover.
Track what gear you have remaining throughout your pitch... carabiners, screamers, pieces of any particular size: If a placement opportunity presents itself, with options for more than one piece size, all other things being equal, use the size where you have redundancy. This gives you more options as far as size later in the pitch.
If you can "read" the pitch and its placement options, use up the pieces you are less likely to need later: for example, your rack holds cams to a #3.5 friend size, and it is obvious that the remainder of the pitch will not require anything larger than a #2 friend, use up the #3.5: on cracks nearly consistent in width, conserve the pieces likely to fit that size, when other, wider or narrower opportunities present themselves.
Brutus, straying just a bit from the original topic.
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