|
dj_unknown
Jun 28, 2005, 2:05 AM
Post #1 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2005
Posts: 21
|
So I'm a pretty new leader, and I've got this rack that I'm hauling up the rock with me. I'd like to make my racking system a little more elegant. Maybe you all can help.
My first couple of leads were done on a rack that had multiple cams per caribiner. That was ok, but kind of a PITA. I'd have to place, then clean a biner full of cams. It works ok on easy routes with bommer stances, but if it's getting heavy, it's WAY too time/effort consuming.
Currently I've got one cam to a biner. Now I can pluck the cam off my rack, stuff it in the crack, and then grab a sling and clip that to the cam, then clip my rope. I don't like that this leaves an extra biner on the rock.
Is there a better way?
thanks!
dj.un
|
|
|
|
|
bostonclimbah
Jun 28, 2005, 2:17 AM
Post #2 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 10, 2003
Posts: 220
|
One per biner is generally the way to go. The extra biner really isn't a big deal. When it makes sense, grab it and take it with you. If not, clip & go.
FWIW, in addition to tripled trad draws (8-10 depending on the route), I carry about four 24" runners over my shoulder. 2-3 of them have 1 biner for such an occassion.
|
|
|
|
|
theishofoz
Jun 28, 2005, 2:26 AM
Post #3 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 217
|
organize everything, especially cams with a draw already on them as shown in the illustration on the left. clip to gear loop using the 'middle' biner and it will rack evenly, and you wont have gear hangign too low or that "extra biner"
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=56612
|
|
|
|
|
tradrenn
Jun 28, 2005, 2:44 AM
Post #4 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
|
In reply to: Is there a better way?
I don't know what cams you have but let me tell you this:
1. I carry 4 cams on one wire oval biner (4CU from DMM) and ones I placed the last one then I extend it and clip my rope to that racking biner.
That way there is no extra binner hanginig around.
2.Carry all cams on seperete biner ( like other user sugested )
That way you don't waiste time reaching for a quickdraw, it is allready there when you needed. The downside of this method is that you have to choose the right cam the first time you want to make a placement.
Second method sounds like something for you, but before you use it ask yourself one question:
Do you choose the right size of cam everytime you make a placement ?
If YES go with no. 2
If NO go with no. 1
Whatever you do, it's your choice.
|
|
|
|
|
jimfix
Jun 28, 2005, 2:52 AM
Post #5 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 18, 2004
Posts: 314
|
In reply to: Currently I've got one cam to a biner. Now I can pluck the cam off my rack, stuff it in the crack, and then grab a sling and clip that to the cam, then clip my rope. I don't like that this leaves an extra biner on the rock.
Get you cams double slinged and it will help. I hope your cliping into the cam and not the cam biner, otherwise your asking for it to twist open.
|
|
|
|
|
toddlearn
Jun 28, 2005, 3:27 AM
Post #6 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 3
|
2 cams per biner seems to work well for me. You have 2 cams one size apart incase you do not guess the right size. After you use the first cam the biner on the second cam is there if you do not want to extend it with a sling. 2 cam on one biner is easy to manage I find more than that gets difficult to deal with.
|
|
|
|
|
areuinclimber
Jun 28, 2005, 4:11 AM
Post #7 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2004
Posts: 436
|
i always rack 1 cam per biner and if the climbing is hard or a straight on finger crack or something then i clip right to the biner and dont even worry about extending it. extending a placement with a trad draw is almost pointless, and time consuming if the route doesnt wander around shit. you will keep yourself from climbing harder by having multiple cams on one biner as you will be fumbling. this way also increases the possibility of dropped gear. dont be worried about the extra biner becuase you will get it back at the end of the route.
everyone i have met and climbed with racks pretty much the same way.
|
|
|
|
|
tradalltheway
Jun 28, 2005, 4:11 AM
Post #8 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2004
Posts: 133
|
Some people can make boiling water a 21 step task.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Jun 28, 2005, 5:05 AM
Post #9 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
I rack one cam to a crab and usually leave that crab behind at the placement.
I try to keep my groups of pieces as small as possible. That way, if I drop it (which I've done) or accidentally leave that entire crab (with all of my small hexes, damnit), I'm not snookered.
It is EXTREMELY difficult to climb onsight, at your limits when you group gear together. Also, anything larger than a .5 camalot grouped with cams of equal or lesser size is gonna be heavy as hell which makes it difficult to place and manipulate without dropping it or further pumping out. That is, if you don't get it right, you get to bite a sling, pick the next cam and hopefully do better. With individual crabs, you pluck one crab with one cam (a pretty light deal compared to 3-4 cams per crab) find out you picked the wrong size and go back for a different single cam with a single crab. Get it? Get good at picking the right size on the first try and you won't even have to deal with step two..
|
|
|
|
|
kachoong
Jun 28, 2005, 5:35 AM
Post #10 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 15304
|
Great drawing.... :lol: I like it! Not a bad idea either, however if it needs to be extended beyond the length of the draw, the initial idea is wasted. Probably good if you can see the exact nature and direction of the pitch/climb.
In reply to: 2 cams per biner seems to work well for me. You have 2 cams one size apart incase you do not guess the right size.
In reply to: anything larger than a .5 camalot grouped with cams of equal or lesser size is gonna be heavy as hell which makes it difficult to place and manipulate without dropping it or further pumping out.
In reply to: Some people can make boiling water a 21 step task.
I find that placing a biner on slings over my shoulder useful and sometimes I'll put a locking biner on it, since biners placed on long slings will move around quite readily once in place.
I also use biners for each of my cams in the same colour as the cam itself. This helps quickly determine which cam I should grab, if they are hanging out of sight.
I've found too, that with time I have racked up in so many different ways, I seem to refine it constantly, and in one instance had a complete paradigm shift in persoanl racking technique....
I like this idea too:
In reply to: I try to keep my groups of pieces as small as possible. That way, if I drop it (which I've done) or accidentally leave that entire crab (with all of my small hexes, damnit), I'm not snookered.
I keep my wires on two or three biners and keep a range of sizes on each, not just big ones and small ones.
|
|
|
|
|
march
Jun 28, 2005, 5:58 AM
Post #11 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 12, 2005
Posts: 72
|
In reply to: organize everything, especially cams with a draw already on them as shown in the illustration on the left. clip to gear loop using the 'middle' biner and it will rack evenly, and you wont have gear hangign too low or that "extra biner" http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=56612
I had to quote the drawing just cause it's so cool.
But... This would work well if you knew exactly what gear you were going to use on a route, but if not, it would seem to require carrying a lot of extra slings (one per piece) or create extra work if not every piece had a sling and you had to take them off other gear. I'm interested in the concept though - can you elaborate on it?
|
|
|
|
|
theishofoz
Jun 28, 2005, 6:20 AM
Post #12 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 217
|
i do a lot of shorter climbs at the grotto and donner and such, so i just carry cams with a trad draw like that. i have it like that so if i need to extend it, it is super simple. in the drawing, the GREEN sling is the trad draw.
i still rack stoppers on a biner and carry extra biners and trad draws for this purpose.
|
|
|
|
|
theishofoz
Jun 28, 2005, 6:24 AM
Post #13 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 217
|
say if i know that the crux is a 40 foot overhanging finger lock frenzy, ill rig up all my aliens like that (within reason;ex: except black/blue, orange and above) so that i can plug 'em in and go when i need them. i would still carry my other cams/stoppers and trad draws/extra biners
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jun 28, 2005, 1:21 PM
Post #14 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
In reply to: Do you choose the right size of cam everytime you make a placement ? If YES go with no. 2 If NO go with no. 1
Racking one per biner is a great way to learn to choose the right size (almost) every time. If you have several on a biner, you don't get as much visceral feedback about choosing the wrong size. If you have to put it back & get a different one off your rack, you KNOW when you've got it right or wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
mtnbkrxtrordnair
Jun 28, 2005, 2:16 PM
Post #15 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 267
|
One cam per biner for me. I carry a few trad draws (all have 2 biners) extended over the shoulder, and some shortened on a gear sling or on the harness. When I clip the draw to a cam, I either take the extra biner with me, or use two biners on the rope end opposite/opposed if I'm feeling paranoid about unclipping. Nuts go half a dozen or so each on 3 biners, small, med. large.
|
|
|
|
|
cjstudent
Jun 28, 2005, 2:34 PM
Post #16 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 369
|
In reply to: organize everything, especially cams with a draw already on them as shown in the illustration on the left. clip to gear loop using the 'middle' biner and it will rack evenly, and you wont have gear hangign too low or that "extra biner" http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=56612
I dont like that idea. What about your passive pro??
Currently, on a typical trad climb i carry half of my slings as "trad draws" and the other half just over my shoulder with one biner on them. When i place a cam off my harness that already has a biner, i just grab a shoulder sling and clip it to the cam and then clip the other biner to the rope. And the trad draws i carry on my harness are for when i place passive gear or i use them if i have run out of sling on my shoulder.
Other than that...make all trad draws and dont care about that extra biner. The reason i do things like i do is to save on not carrying as many biners.
|
|
|
|
|
lessthanjoey
Jun 28, 2005, 4:45 PM
Post #17 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 4
|
I carry all my slings (8mm dyneema so not too bulky) over my shoulder with one biner, then rack the cams each with their own biner.
i then have a bunch of extra biners just clipped to my harness. when i place passive pro i grab one of those and add it to the sling. i find that my passive pro placements occur when i have a good stance and plenty of time so this is far more efficient for me.
|
|
|
|
|
crimp2bfree
Jun 28, 2005, 5:09 PM
Post #18 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 5, 2005
Posts: 114
|
Those are some funky looking cams. Prototype of ANOTHER NEW CAM maybe?...
|
|
|
|
|
theishofoz
Jun 28, 2005, 5:58 PM
Post #19 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 217
|
i already answered that i have my stoppers racked normally, and i carry extra trad draws and biners for that very purpose
In reply to: i still rack stoppers on a biner and carry extra biners and trad draws for this purpose. |
|
|
|
|
theishofoz
Jun 28, 2005, 5:59 PM
Post #20 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 217
|
In reply to: Those are some funky looking cams. Prototype of ANOTHER NEW CAM maybe?..
nope, just me hastily trying to draw it up in paint when i saw this thread...
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jun 28, 2005, 6:48 PM
Post #21 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
In reply to: nope, just me hastily trying to draw it up in paint when i saw this thread... |
|
|
|
|
kimgraves
Jun 28, 2005, 7:31 PM
Post #22 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 13, 2003
Posts: 1186
|
Hi,
I rack multiple cams per biner organized for redundancy. I usually carry Aliens below a purple Camalot size and then a double set of Camalots above that through yellow. A Green and yellow alien on one biner, a purple and green Camalot on another, the second purple/green on yet another, and then red/yellow, red/yellow, blue/black. By putting two sizes on one biner I’ve made my rack redundant (if I drop the biner I don’t loose everything in that size). I’ve also cut the number of racking biners I need in half. The coverage potential you have is much wider with each group so you’re almost assured of pulling off the right group. With this system I can carry all 12 of my cams on 6 biners. With passive pro I do the same. Since I climb at the Gunks I carry doubles of tricams through brown. A pink/red/brown goes on one biner. A second also gets the pink/red/brown. Everything gets a single or double runner. Using this system you only have to leave a biner half the time.
Best, Kim
|
|
|
|
|
dangler1
Jun 30, 2005, 8:40 PM
Post #23 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 35
|
In reply to: 2 cams per biner seems to work well for me. You have 2 cams one size apart incase you do not guess the right size. After you use the first cam the biner on the second cam is there if you do not want to extend it with a sling. 2 cam on one biner is easy to manage I find more than that gets difficult to deal with.
This system has worked well for me.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Jun 30, 2005, 8:52 PM
Post #24 of 30
(7361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
In reply to: In reply to: 2 cams per biner seems to work well for me. You have 2 cams one size apart incase you do not guess the right size. After you use the first cam the biner on the second cam is there if you do not want to extend it with a sling. 2 cam on one biner is easy to manage I find more than that gets difficult to deal with. This system has worked well for me.
The larger the cams, the less I rack per biner. Small cams are racked 2 or 3 to a biner, BD #1 and #2 racked on one biner, and #3 and #4 racked individually. I find I'm more likely to be off in the smaller sizes (smaller expansion range) than the big cams.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
