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areuinclimber
Jun 29, 2005, 8:00 PM
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hey all,
i was thinking about a permanent way to mark my gear that doesnt create any snags (like all tapes do) and i remember that there is a stamp type thing you can buy for marking gear. a few of the used ovals i bought awhile ago had the previous owners initials stamped into the spine. where can i get a stamp with my initials?
does this compromise strength of the piece being stamped?
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 12:11 AM
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please say youre refering to INK...and not with a "stamp and hammer" stamp :x :roll: :shock:
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 12:28 AM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10323&item=5008296044&rd=1
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clovissprout
Jun 30, 2005, 1:59 AM
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a little paranoid of people taking your gear? wow.
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socalbolter
Jun 30, 2005, 2:11 AM
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the ebay post above has the kind of stamps you're looking for.
used to be this was a common thing to do. i guess people are overly paranoid about stress fractures or the like nowdays.
aluminum is a soft enough metal that i can't see you doing any significant damage this way. back in my big wall and desert crack days (when mixing gear with folks in the parking lot was more common) i used to mark all my gear this way (cams, nuts, hexes, biners, etc.).
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 2:30 AM
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thanks to the 2 people that actually responded with useful info (i really couldnt have expected more i guess, it is rc.com).
paranoid about my gear? no
one of the countless climbing drones with the camalot and alien combo? yes
i dont see how stamping my gear translates to paranoia. ive used tape, this (in situations i have encountered) makes flipping the carabiner around while clipped to a bolt, pair of shoes, or cam sling quite a hassle sometimes. this is not what i want when placing pro on a particularly hard climb or something. ive tried spray paint, and that litters the rock more than i care to admit with your choice color for the first week or so of climbing. but i believe if one actually read my original post carefully these things woulld become evident, oh well.
so, socalbolter, do you still do this or do you now think that it would create a safety issue?
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socalbolter
Jun 30, 2005, 2:35 AM
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i don't still do it, but not because i have second thoughts about doing it.
my gear is already stamped or otherwise marked and i'm not often in situations where i'm borrowing or loaning gear outside my normal circle of partners.
i would not think twice about doing it again. all it takes is a fairly firm blow with the hammer on the end of the stamp and the mark is made. you don't need to go overboard with repeated or brutal hammer blows.
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 2:54 AM
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alright, thanks for the info, i need to do it because im forced to fish for partners in camp 4 usually, no steady partners as of yet for me.
although i have email a slew of manufacturers and when they reply i will post it up here for all to see.
i emailed black diamond, omega pacific, trango, dmm and wildcountry so im interested in if their views are opposed.
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socalbolter
Jun 30, 2005, 3:09 AM
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I would guess that none of the bigger manufacturers will come right out and say that it's OK to do, because in doing so they might open themselves up for liability in today's "sue-happy" world.
I'll be curious to see what replies you do get though so please post them when you get them.
thanks!
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 3:10 AM
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DON"T BE FUCKING STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....always avoid putting your gear through that kind of stress....use ink/paint/tape/markers......if your gonna stamp them or take a dremel to it like a fucking retard you might as well just mail me your gear....
use some common sense!!!!!!!!!! :x
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poedoe
Jun 30, 2005, 3:23 AM
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Metal fatigue happens when you apply repeated force above a metals fatigue limit. What this means in a nutshell is that if you consistently put a large amount of force on something that can't handle that force, it is going to break (this is refered to as the metals "fatigue limit"). Alluminum is an interesting metal in that is does NOT have a fatigue limit. So repeated cycles of stress (force per unit area) of any magnitude on alluminum can eventully cause fatigue cracks.
Well that's the only objection I can think of as to why you shouldn't stamp a carabiner. With that said I might still climb on gear thats been stamped, but why put undue stress on the gear that is keeping you alive?
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socalbolter
Jun 30, 2005, 3:31 AM
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So, who wants to be the second person (I'll be the first) to point out to Mr. Tattoo (who claims in his profile to work in a machine shop) that most all of the gear on his rack and used in our sport (from bolt hangers to hooks, to nuts and hexes to cam lobes to biners to ...) are all stamped with identification numbers, strengths, etc. during their manufacture.
I'm sure the hydraulic presses used to do that stamping hit far harder than my mighty Yo Hammer.
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 4:39 AM
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I am fucking stupid.
I am a fucking retard.
I have no common sense.
But I am still alive.
And so are all of the many other climbers who stamp their gear.
Darn. At least I get my gear back, even if it is 6 months or a year later...
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slobmonster
Jun 30, 2005, 5:10 AM
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A pragmatic/valid reason to NOT stamp one's gear is that on most modern carabiners, you'll be hard-pressed to find a smooth uninterrupted surface large enough to stamp. And the lightest carabiners have any excess shaved away already, and thus you may not want to remove any more.
But on your ovals? Sure, heck yeah. A light tap should do it. Take a leaver biner, give it a few practice whacks.
I've used a Dremel-type tool to *lightly* engrave much of my gear. 'Biners with solid gates: on the inside of the gate. Wiregates: somewhere on the spine. Cams: on the part of the lobe that never touches rock (the squared edge).
Did I mention *lightly*? I'm talking just removing any anodization.
TC, no disrespect, but take it easy, man.
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 5:15 AM
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tattooed_climber,
your one of those overly paranoid climbers huh? watch who your calling a fucking retard (alot of people in this case). would a fucking retard consult the masses before stamping gear (o wait, isnt that what this thread is about?) im not gonna belittle you in any way becuase im better than that but dont cry in this post any longer please. what does it matter to you if i die any how? i believe socalbolter has probably taken a whipper or 2 on his stamped gear same as blawless. the 6 USED (im dead already huh) BD neutrino's that i have are stamped and have been fallen on. the stamp doesnt go through half the spine or anything just a slight marking, light tapping stuff you know?
but i assume that shortly i will receive replies to the email's i sent out to various big names in the climbing industry (bd,trango,op,dmm,wc) concerning this issue. but it wont do any good as i am a fucking retard huh.
only on RC
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 5:21 AM
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Slobmonster, is that Mt. Tam in the background of your sig?
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crgwhe
Jun 30, 2005, 5:47 AM
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In reply to: DON"T BE f---ing STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....always avoid putting your gear through that kind of stress....use ink/paint/tape/markers......if your gonna stamp them or take a dremel to it like a f---ing retard you might as well just mail me your gear.... use some common sense!!!!!!!!!! :x
If I had any inclination this type of marking would degrade the structural integrity leading to premature failure of ones gear, I wouldn’t have suggested it. I’m not a metallurgist nor have I been climbing near as long as you. So I might be wrong in the assumption that 3 initials carved into some biners would not lead to failure and the eventual climbers death. But I doubt it.
As a matter of fact, none of my gear is marked. But after reading your reply, I have decided to take care of that. Maybe I’ll dress up my initials with some rock patterns covering the entire surface of a few biners. Or maybe a few wilderness pictures with a squirrel hear and there using antiquing of multiple colors. I’m going to be a Dremel engraving retard tomorrow!
And if you didn’t observe the width of a nickel at the beginning of this reply, I’m betting you will soon.
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 5:54 AM
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In reply to: tattooed_climber, your one of those overly paranoid climbers huh? watch who your calling a f---ing retard (alot of people in this case). would a f---ing retard consult the masses before stamping gear (o wait, isnt that what this thread is about?) im not gonna belittle you in any way becuase im better than that but dont cry in this post any longer please. what does it matter to you if i die any how? i believe socalbolter has probably taken a whipper or 2 on his stamped gear same as blawless. the 6 USED (im dead already huh) BD neutrino's that i have are stamped and have been fallen on. the stamp doesnt go through half the spine or anything just a slight marking, light tapping stuff you know? but i assume that shortly i will receive replies to the email's i sent out to various big names in the climbing industry (bd,trango,op,dmm,wc) concerning this issue. but it wont do any good as i am a f---ing retard huh. only on RC
blah blah blah blah blah...
ok bud.....course, you think i'm over reactin ....blah blah....ok
i work with steel and metals for a living...i know what stampin is....and the consideration of this totally blows my mind....i think i'll tell this to my partner to give him a good laugh.....in fact, talkin to my engineers at work, stampin and bendin our metals can seriously fuck up shit if done wrong.(we deal with structural shit)..and i can't see any 'right" way with doing it to climbing gear...i thought this would be common sense....if how you file an ice axe pick effects its strength, sure as hell stamping a biner will fuck it up
you know what....i don't care....i freaked out cus i was trying to press the seriousness of the matter to you but. NOPE...i don't care.....i don;t care if you die now...my karma will be clean...in fact i encourage you to....(not to mention the possiblity that some of these replys are pob trolls)...so go out and stamp all your gear..your biners, nuts, axles of the cams, tents , everything.....like 6 times each just to be sure...and fall alot and fall often
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 6:07 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: DON"T BE f---ing STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....always avoid putting your gear through that kind of stress....use ink/paint/tape/markers......if your gonna stamp them or take a dremel to it like a f---ing retard you might as well just mail me your gear.... use some common sense!!!!!!!!!! :x Got a nickel? Pick it up and look at it’s spine. About an hour ago, using my dremel at 35,000 rpm, I carved my full name into the spine of a nickel the same width as the one you are holding. Lets see a retard do that. If I had any inclinationblabh lbah blah blah blah, i don't know what i'm talking about, blah blah blah with a squirrel hear and there using antiquing of multiple colors. I’m going to65773737.. jibber jabber.....jibber jabber....the width of a nickel at the beginning of this reply, I’m betting you will soon.
.......and another thing.....that edge your creating form the dremal is a small nurl...and that'll snag fibers of your ropes and runners
secondly...it'll wear off or be rubbed/scatched off (the engraving that is if its that small)
how many rpm???....that'll translate pretty good into frequency of vibrations..........
you know what....you be a smartie....dremal on.....dremal your sport draws and atc and your tents for all i care now......
NATURAL SELECTION IS IN EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!!
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 6:13 AM
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You sure seem to post a lot for someone who doesn't care.
And what happened to the part that said "GO FUCK YOURSELF" at the end of your earlier post? I guess you must have calmed down.
I stamp bolt hangers with messages sometimes too! "CERTAIN DEATH!"
Every biner in this picture is stamped.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=21931
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 6:18 AM
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In reply to: You sure seem to post a lot for someone who doesn't care. And what happened to the part that said "GO f--- YOURSELF" at the end of your earlier post? I guess you must have calmed down. I stamp bolt hangers with messages sometimes too! "CERTAIN DEATH!" Every biner in this picture is stamped. http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=21931
stamp!....i don't care.....good for you.....i'm going to go to bed knowing that none of my gear has been stamped and the next climb i'm on i wouldn't have to worry about it......in my profession opinion, this is very stupid...as a fellow climber, i think its retarded........
and this flame war is boring because none of you have valid points....
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 6:22 AM
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I told you earlier that I am retarded. What seems to be the problem?
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 2:04 PM
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blah blah blah blah blah...
ok bud.....course, you think i'm over reactin ....blah blah....ok
i work with steel and metals for a living...i know what stampin is....and the consideration of this totally blows my mind....i think i'll tell this to my partner to give him a good laugh.....in fact, talkin to my engineers at work, stampin and bendin our metals can seriously f--- up s--- if done wrong.(we deal with structural s---)..and i can't see any 'right" way with doing it to climbing gear...i thought this would be common sense....if how you file an ice axe pick effects its strength, sure as hell stamping a biner will f--- it up
you know what....i don't care....i freaked out cus i was trying to press the seriousness of the matter to you but. NOPE...i don't care.....i don;t care if you die now...my karma will be clean...in fact i encourage you to....(not to mention the possiblity that some of these replys are pob trolls)...so go out and stamp all your gear..your biners, nuts, axles of the cams, tents , everything.....like 6 times each just to be sure...and fall alot and fall often
so, please explain to me more about this "karma" thing and how it relates to the subject of my stamping gear? are you even buddhist? wait, are half the internet climbers on this site that use the word so freely even buddhist? do they even know the actual law of karma?
anyways back to the original post. i am one completely capable of swallowing my pride, these are the replies (as i recieve them, i will edit this post and post them):
DMM:
Hi Matt,
We don't recommend that you modify your carabiners in any way and this would
include stamping or marking the spine of the carabiner, tape is really the only
safe method, I know there's a label company that prints your name and number on
little stickers I don't have the contact details but a little bit of internet
research should find them,
Regards,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: matt watford [mailto]
Sent: 30 June 2005 03:51
To: Lisa George
Subject: metal stamps and your gear.
hello, i am considering using a hammer and metal stamp to engrave my
initials into the spine (or other area?) of my biners. the reason is that
tape gets in the way too often and spray paint is messy and litters the rock
(sadly, i know from experience). i own a few used carabiners with the
previous owners initials stamped into the inner spine of the carabiner.
does this in any way effect the load bearing strengh of the carabiner
rendering it unsafe for use?
thank you
just got an email from BD:
Matt-
Probably not a good idea...
2 things here:
1- You'll void any warranty that exists.
2- Different depths of engraving could produce hairline cracks and/or compromise the biner's strength.
Plenty of people do it, and get by just fine. But that is a decision you'll have to make on your own.
-j
Jason Horne
Black Diamond Equip. Ltd
Direct: 801-993-1301
Main: 801-278-5533
jason@bdel.com
DISCLAIMER: This message is personal opinion and may or may not reflect the opinion of Black Diamond Equipment Ltd.
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