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tysonsugihara
Jul 13, 2005, 11:41 PM
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Here's how it happened...
My friend was leading a .10b sport, and had the first draw secure about 8 feet off the ground. He was making his final move to the second bolt, on what appeared to be a simple move to a jug. I had aprox. 18 inches of slack in the rope anticipating his move, and then I hear "I'm off".
I leaned back in anticipation of the fall, and was yanked forward about two feet. He tumbled onto his back, and decked just as the rope was at it's full stretch. Aside from some rope burn and a small digger in the back, he was ok. He says that there was nothing I could have done, and I dont feel that I could have done much more, but it still makes me feel like crap knowing that he decked in my hands....
P.S. He got up and nailed the route..
So, I am hoping that there is a support group out there that has some similar stories to share...
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kungfuclimber
Jul 13, 2005, 11:58 PM
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Hey don't worry about it. If there was no risk of injury it'd be called bouldering.
.... running away....
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kyote321
Jul 14, 2005, 12:00 AM
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no you weren't at fault.
i almost always stick clip both the first bolt, for rope management, and the second for ground fall while clipping potential.
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hortisb
Jul 14, 2005, 12:02 AM
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No matter how good of a belayer you are, there are certain situations where you can't do anything. In the first few feet of a climb, you are more of a spotter than a belayer. Even after that first bolt, if it's a run out he'll deck no matter what you do.
Don't be hard on yourself, be grateful your friend was ok.
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jt512
Jul 14, 2005, 12:20 AM
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In reply to: Here's how it happened... My friend was leading a .10b sport, and had the first draw secure about 8 feet off the ground. He was making his final move to the second bolt, on what appeared to be a simple move to a jug. I had aprox. 18 inches of slack in the rope anticipating his move, and then I hear "I'm off". I leaned back in anticipation of the fall, and was yanked forward about two feet. He tumbled onto his back, and decked just as the rope was at it's full stretch. Aside from some rope burn and a small digger in the back, he was ok. He says that there was nothing I could have done, and I dont feel that I could have done much more, but it still makes me feel like crap knowing that he decked in my hands.... P.S. He got up and nailed the route.. So, I am hoping that there is a support group out there that has some similar stories to share...
You want support, go cry to your girlfriend. Here's what you could have done better:
[*:fd8b838849]You were anticipating a successful move instead of a fall. Until the second (and often the third) bolt is clipped, it should be the other way around.
[*:fd8b838849]18 inches of slack is too much slack between the first and second bolts.
[*:fd8b838849]You only leaned back when he fell, when you could have sat down; fallen to your knees; or turned, taken a step away from the wall, and yanked out some rope.
[*:fd8b838849]The fact that you got pulled forward implies that you were standing too far from the wall. Until several bolts are clipped, the belayer should be standing right up against the wall, and just enough off to the side so that the leader won't fall directly onto him.
[*:fd8b838849]The rope burn and tumbling over may have been your fault. Part of the belayer's job when the leader is low on the route is to position the rope so that the leader does not stumble over it if he should fall.
-Jay
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craqho
Jul 14, 2005, 1:59 AM
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Jay is absolutely correct; all his points are valid. Except the girlfriend comment. My girlfriend would never get on the sharp end for me if she heard I let someone deck like that.
You should go cry to your mom, she'll probably bake you some cookies or something. Consider Jay's smackdown comments tough love and learn from it...
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blueeyedclimber
Jul 14, 2005, 2:45 AM
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Ditto on Jay's comments. He is harsh, but also correct.
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organic
Jul 14, 2005, 2:48 AM
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In reply to: no you weren't at fault. i almost always stick clip both the first bolt, for rope management, and the second for ground fall while clipping potential.
I hope this is a troll...
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socrate
Jul 14, 2005, 3:06 AM
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Hey I TOTALLY agree with jay.
His comments are hard, but honest. And I would emphasize the comment on being close to the wall on the first bolts. Too often we see people so far that they get pulled back. Oh,but be careful there's nothing over you're head to go hit ex overhang, tree. etc...
Don't forget an accident can happen, And I would count myself lucky in you're shoes.
Imagine if he fell at the same spot with the slack in his hands, or if he was lets say one foot higher. It might have been a worst fall.
But then again, You did what I believe is truly the most important thing. You didn't just shrug it off. You're willing to take the abuse from all of us. And what's important is to lean from mistakes so we don't repeat them.
Luck to you
Socrate
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sbaclimber
Jul 14, 2005, 3:17 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: no you weren't at fault. i almost always stick clip both the first bolt, for rope management, and the second for ground fall while clipping potential. I hope this is a troll... |
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tucsonalex
Jul 14, 2005, 3:21 AM
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I happily clip as many bolts as I can reach with my 22 foot stick. We can always count on Jay to tell it like it is.
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areuinclimber
Jul 14, 2005, 3:28 AM
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oh well tough shit. obviously... jt512 is correct and i hope you have learned something (from the experience first, postings second). you havent truly failed unless you walk away learning nothing... or something like that. and when your mom bakes you those cookies... pm me for my mail address.
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rightarmbad
Jul 14, 2005, 4:17 AM
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When I step on the pointy end, the only thing I expect from a belayer is that they not pull me off the wall, and be locked off if I fall. Everything better than that is a bonus.
As the leader you can certainly communicate with your belayer about any concerns you have with where to stand, how much slack is in the system and the like.
For sure, most people that belay me do far more than the minimum, but the minimum is all I expect and I will not blame them for not performing any more than this. If there was too much slack in the system or too much rope out, then it is as much the climbers fault as the belayer.
This is the deal when you accept the challenge of leading.
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dangler1
Jul 14, 2005, 4:19 AM
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J hit the nail on the head. A little harsh maybe but not nearly as harsh as having a head smashed. The first two or three sport clips or pieces of trad gear are in many cases the most critical to the safety of the climber. Anyone can make a mistake doing anything, you guys walked away with some good scars, a good story and some solid feedback from J. Kudos to you guys for getting back up and sending the climb.
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ajkclay
Jul 14, 2005, 4:43 AM
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In reply to: Hey don't worry about it. If there was no risk of injury it'd be called bouldering. .... running away....
:lol: good one! now wait for the bites!
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grk10vq
Jul 14, 2005, 5:01 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hey don't worry about it. If there was no risk of injury it'd be called bouldering. .... running away.... :lol: good one! now wait for the bites!
.............tip toe
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rockprodigy
Jul 14, 2005, 5:05 AM
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What route were you on?
This is further evidence for you new-routers out there, you should put the first bolt way up! Low first bolts are a false sense of security.
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smax
Jul 14, 2005, 10:31 PM
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In reply to: This is further evidence for you new-routers out there, you should put the first bolt way up! Low first bolts are a false sense of security.
I like:
Distance from 1st to 2nd bolt < distance from 1st bolt to ground.
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skinnyclimber
Jul 14, 2005, 11:01 PM
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"my friend decked... and I was on belay"
...Sooooo. Your friend wasn't on belay? :D :D
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sbaclimber
Jul 14, 2005, 11:51 PM
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In reply to: "my friend decked... and I was on belay" ...Sooooo. Your friend wasn't on belay? :D :D |
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sbaclimber
Jul 15, 2005, 12:01 AM
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In reply to: "my friend decked... and I was on belay" ...Sooooo. Your friend wasn't on belay? :D :D |
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jt512
Jul 15, 2005, 3:09 PM
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In reply to: "my friend decked... and I was on belay" ...Sooooo. Your friend wasn't on belay? :D :D
Thanks. These kids need a vocabulary lesson.
-Jay
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skinnyclimber
Jul 15, 2005, 3:42 PM
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Awwwww shucks. My post has been rated highly by my peers.
Yahooooooooo!!! Yeahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!123456789
And it's Friday. ALRIGHT!!!!!! TODAY ROCKS!!!
We're gonna get crazy in Albuquerque.... errr the Peco Wilderness.... TONIGHT!!!!
Happy climbing peoplesez.
Skinny
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flipnfall
Jul 15, 2005, 4:45 PM
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It sounded like you did everything you could to back up and take slack. Most people who deck do it on the first or second bolt. I've decked a number of times with the rope helping to stop my fall just enough to keep me from getting hurt. It's part of the risk of climbing. I would never be upset at my belayer for that. In fact, I'd be upset at my belayer if he got upset with himself over something that's not his fault.
I wouldn't worry about it at all. Sounds like you did a great job.
GT
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jimthespider
Jul 15, 2005, 5:04 PM
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I had something very similar happen to me and my partner not too long ago except he was leading trad.
Some thoughts...
18" isn't too much if you are anticipating the leader to stand up on a foot hold he is highstepped on.
Due to the base of the climb, often times you can't get right up against the face. The climb we were on had a tree at the base that caused me to be about 4' away from the wall and also the ground at the base was sloping downward steeply and the only safe, flat spot was the one I was on. I couldn't have run, sat down or backed up from my position.
Everyone wants to say that all accidents are avoidable and that is bs. Sometimes shit happens and everything was done as by-the-book as possible.
The one thing to take away from the experience is to always be ready with the first aid and have a rescue plan. Learn from it and move on....
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