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authorizeduser
Jul 15, 2005, 7:53 PM
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In the SuperTopo books, I see recommended gear for routes. For example, "nuts: 1-2 sets, cams: 1-2ea .6-3inch". Has anyone looked at the recommendation and then looked at what they've used? Was the recommendation conservative or not, or right on the mark?
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areuinclimber
Jul 15, 2005, 8:07 PM
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the pro is either dead on or more than enough to get you through the route.
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nthusiastj
Jul 15, 2005, 8:13 PM
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They seem pretty right on to me.
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tim
Jul 15, 2005, 8:18 PM
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If anything, Chris's recommendations tend to be on the safe side, eg. take an extra piece that you may not place if you're strong at the grade. They're usually right on.
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climbinginchico
Jul 15, 2005, 8:52 PM
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SuperTaco's recommendations are almost always perfect.
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boltdude
Jul 16, 2005, 7:50 PM
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Just a note that confuses some Supertopo users - the crack size is the actual size of the crack, and NOT the same as the numbering on Black Diamond Camalots. One of the most common complaints I get is that if a topo says 0.75" cam, people bring a #.75 Camalot instead of a #.4 Camalot - so if you are new to Supertopos and you have Camalots, make sure you examine the cam size chart in the front of the guides.
You can also check the route database at Supertopo.com, where people often comment on routes and the pro. The database is limited to routes covered in the Supertopo guides.
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authorizeduser
Jul 18, 2005, 1:18 AM
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Thanks for the replies... this has all been very helpful!
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flamer
Jul 18, 2005, 2:53 AM
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I usually find supertopo racks to be overkill....very rarely do you need doubles....but when you do you defiantly do. If there is any doubt cross reference other guides, and internet info.
josh
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wedgy
Jul 18, 2005, 3:44 AM
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NEVER short of gear, sometimes a few extra pieces, but you're not lugging a bunch of extra stuff. Best guide available.
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sixleggedinsect
Jul 21, 2005, 2:40 AM
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In reply to: I usually find supertopo racks to be overkill....very rarely do you need doubles....but when you do you defiantly do. If there is any doubt cross reference other guides, and internet info.
i find when people strong at a grade need doubles, supertopo says bring triples. like others said, they're conservative (ie- safe) pro guides. but- before you decide to leave gear on the ground, find out how the particular area feels before paring down, unless you're a bad-ass working below your limit.
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ikellen
Jul 21, 2005, 6:58 PM
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Supertopo has always been right on for me, about the only thing though is that the reccomendations might be light if you like to sew it up. If you are close to, or solid at the grade, the rack is right on.
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j_ung
Jul 21, 2005, 7:08 PM
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I've only used SuperTopos on a couple rotues, but my experience is spot-on to really safe. I'm sure you realize that it's all subjective, but IMO, they've struck a nice balance.
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authorizeduser
Jul 24, 2005, 11:47 PM
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Answering my own question after the fact... I looked at the gear recommendation and the climbed a route under my ability and found that I used less gear than what they had said. BUT, who cares, I'd rather have too much gear than not enough... right? Thanks for your replies!
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hangerlessbolt
Aug 8, 2005, 9:04 PM
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"Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it..."
Spot on
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flamer
Aug 8, 2005, 10:15 PM
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In reply to: BUT, who cares, I'd rather have too much gear than not enough... right?
That's a very noobie thing to say....you should learn to do more with less. Carrying less gear will allow you to do a variety of things....like move faster and more efficiently, which always you to climb more, and in the mountains(and on big routes) climb safer.
Very rarely will I carry anything more than 1and a half set of nuts and single cams from a Blue alien to a #3 camalot. I've gotten up plenty of stuff with that rack, when Mctopo said to bring doubles to a #4 camalot.
josh
P.S.
Don't forget your 10 essentials! :wink:
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scuclimber
Aug 11, 2005, 2:36 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: BUT, who cares, I'd rather have too much gear than not enough... right? That's a very noobie thing to say....you should learn to do more with less. Carrying less gear will allow you to do a variety of things....like move faster and more efficiently, which always you to climb more, and in the mountains(and on big routes) climb safer. Very rarely will I carry anything more than 1and a half set of nuts and single cams from a Blue alien to a #3 camalot. I've gotten up plenty of stuff with that rack, when Mctopo said to bring doubles to a #4 camalot. josh P.S. Don't forget your 10 essentials! :wink:
At first glance I thought your post said "That's a very noble thing to say," but then I read it a bit more closely. To each his own, eh? :wink:
Colin
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karlbaba
Aug 16, 2005, 1:55 AM
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THe closer to your limit the climb in question is, the more likely you are to need the whole list of gear suggested.
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phile
Oct 5, 2005, 5:50 AM
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this thread has quietly gone away, but in case someone stumbles onto it by using the search, let me say this:
In the past it has always seemed slightly conservative to me, even when climbing near my limit. This weekend I led Central Pillar of Frenzy, which turned out to be harder than I can climb (a few falls and hangs). The supertopo calls for (among other things) 1-2 sets of nuts, 2 .4" cams, and 3 3.5"-4" cams. I didn't place a single nut (stuck with cams since I was struggling, and the belays are all bolted), I didn't bring any .4" cams, and I only brought one 3.5-4" one.
I never felt like I was particularly running it out, and I never wanted more gear. The route comments on the supertopo site have criticized the wide gear rec as overkill, but I also sure didn't miss the .4" cams or the 2nd set of nuts.
YMMV.
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mattm
Oct 5, 2005, 6:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: BUT, who cares, I'd rather have too much gear than not enough... right? That's a very noobie thing to say....you should learn to do more with less. Carrying less gear will allow you to do a variety of things....like move faster and more efficiently, which always you to climb more, and in the mountains(and on big routes) climb safer. Very rarely will I carry anything more than 1and a half set of nuts and single cams from a Blue alien to a #3 camalot. I've gotten up plenty of stuff with that rack, when Mctopo said to bring doubles to a #4 camalot. josh P.S. Don't forget your 10 essentials! :wink:
Thread Revived!
I don't think your claim that less is more or that less gear lets you climb faster is correct. I think it's much more complicated than that. Less gear on stuff well within ones range (ie alpine 5.easy ridge climb) will certainly help you go faster since your not dragging along all that weight. HOWEVER - as you start to climb more difficult climbs, the penalty of having more gear (and the weight) quickly declines. Instead of having to climb slowly and conservatively because you aren't well protected having more gear allows you to move with confidence on terrain. Also - having more gear options means you don't have to fart around jigging up some creative pro placement when, instead, you just grab that second piece, slam it in and go. Real world and well know examples of this: Hans vs Dean on the Half Dome/Nose speed solos. Dean soloed a lot of the climbing as where Hans rope soloed with a soloist. Hans ended up going faster because he had a security system in place that allowed him to "push it" where Dean had to be very conservative.
You have to judge the weight vs security benefits and then make your decision. Sometimes light=speed=safety other times gear=safety=speed
All in all - this comes down to experience with yourself and the areas you climb.
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alpine_monk
Oct 10, 2005, 2:40 AM
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^^^what a smart guy^^^
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lajhanata
Oct 10, 2005, 3:31 AM
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I find supertopo is good about gear recommendations, especially when little gear is needed. On larger rack recommendations there is definitely more room to improvise. Bear in mind that nobody leads exactly the same too. Friday I told my partner to lead a climb that had eaten both my #1 camalots and left me wishing for a third, but he climbed the whole route with three of them dangling off his sling and never placed them. I've never heard of supertopo shorting people on gear, and on long alpine having that extra piece can really make a difference between a good weekend and an epic.
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piton
Oct 11, 2005, 3:10 PM
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In reply to: I usually find supertopo racks to be overkill....
i agree w/ flamer. super topo is good for aid climbing not for free climbing
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