I consider it a very bad and lazy habit employed by people who want to devote less than 100% of their attention to the belay and has been either totally unnecessary or completely ill-advised in most instances I've seen it used in.

For belaying the leader it depends.

I don't trust the gri-gri like the reverso though. I've taken a fall self belaying with a gri-gri and the rope slipped through for 10+ feet before the gri-gri locked up, so I wouldn't take my brake hand off the rope with a gri-gri belaying off the anchor (which eliminates a lot of the benefits).

Are you serious that you find belay stances that allow you to hold falls with your body %90 of the time? What are you climbing, like 40 degree slabs with huge ledges?

I have found that I cannot belay directly of my harness safely at 90% of anchors, and that it is much safer and easier to belay off the anchor (with a munter, by the way. Its free and works great).

You don't find that less comfortable?...

Especially when the second is hanging...

In my experience, I have found that the only secure 'stance' for belaying the second directly off my waist is when I can postion my body facing towards the lip of the ledge I am on while sitting with my legs extended in front of me and my feet bracing against some sort of feature such as a tree or large boulder. I'm not sure where you climb, but where I do (Gunks, New Hampshire), I rarely find belay stations that allow this.

A lot of belay stations do not allow an effective belay stance. And what happens if you are pulled out of that stance? Then the anchor MUST hold that fall. If you are building solid anchors to hold factor 2 falls then using the anchor to belay is, I believe, a better alternative. There are plenty of situations when it is safer to use stance as you state, but I feel you should be using both; stance and the anchor.

Like anything else in climbing, there is a time and a place for everything. most often, i use the autoblock on the reverso when belaying two seconds in a party of three. there are other times when using it is a good option- but all of those times must be chosen after evaluating the current situation- sometimes it is just as viable as a regular belay, other times it is cumbersome and possibly dangerous.

Is it ever necessary? probably not. however, calling it a bad and lazy habit is rather arrogant- just because you do not like it doesnt mean it is not a good choice for other climbers (although probably not a good one for beginners- as you mentioned).

Finally, its too bad you wont climb with someone who uses the autoblock method occasionally- i suspect you're robbing yourself of more than one great partner by doing this.

As i see, the OP is talking about multipitch sport, and not some trad or alpine stuff.

...

So for belying the second, a direct belay is fine. I even think belaying your second of the anchor is nearly always better. Ever thought of a possible rescue situation, where you have to escape the belay?

For belaying the leader it depends. Since we are talking sport, the risk of the protection failing is rather minor, so a hard catch wouldnt pose that much problems as in trad, but a "static" belayx device as the grigri shouldnt be used, for the comfort of the leader.

I dont really see the issue with "feeling" your leader. I always have the lead rope a bit loose, and if i see i getting thighter, i feed rope. If speed is your goal, this might get hard, but in "normal" situations it should be fine.

If you dont clip you belay device directely into a bolt, and the leader falls, you will possibly get liftet up. on the ground or a really huge ledge, this shouldnt be a problem, but if you are hanging on an anchor you will get pulled up, until you connection to the bolts stops your upwards movement, translating it into an orb, eventually smashing you on the wall. depending on how hard you hit, you might get injured and/or let go of the lead rope. This problems can get avoided, but in my opinion its rather stuff for the experienced belayer.

If done right, none of the two methods (direct of the anchor/bodybelay) is neither dangerous nor superiour compared with the other, but IMO the direct of the anchor is easyer.

I'd probably make an exception in your case as you're so entertaining and I know you're under the tutelage of an old master. Hell, John, I thought you were going to post that Larry was only giving you stance-based, hip belays up Epinephrine.

healyje -

How would you escape your belay if your second gets injured? If you're belaying directly off your harness, your second manages to get himself/herself injured, what will you do? Imagining your situation, with a 150-200 lb body hanging off your waist, I have a hard time imagining you can escape. It reminds of me of Touching the Void.

As I've said several times now I can and have escaped belays using various contrived methods depending on what I have on me at the time and each in under two minutes from when I didn't like the situation at hand.

As for "Touching the Void" that was a deteriorating stance and after as long as he held a dead rope I'd have likely done exactly what he did. It isn't always a safely bolted sport world out there...

He could have used a prussic to his harness and freed his hands and rigged an anchor. I figure he didn't try that because of the altitude and was a little spooked.

And not all of us are sport climbers. I've done my share but it's just "practice" for real climbing. :wink:

Oh, and I belay with a Reverso - I just never think of using it in that nasty way...

...this last statement is a bit odd. The reverso is kind of a second-rate device in regular old plate/ATC mode, and it's kinda heavy to boot, other than idiosynchratic personal preference, why bother with carrying the thing if you aren't going to use half its capabilities?

I think Larry would relate to my position on the issue - it's an old school deal I think, from back in the days when people didn't dog and anchors were as good as you could make them which wasn't always good...

Well, that's true-- the best belays are the ones where you never get to find out how solid the anchors are. But I'm reasonably open-minded on the issue, particularly with a guy like John (vegastradguy) who is smart and really has his systems and gear worked out...