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jt512


Jul 27, 2005, 1:19 PM
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Links to photo sales from photo database
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See: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...tPhoto&PhotoID=58144

This strikes me as cheesy commercialism that degrades the site. This practice should not be allowed.

-Jay


renohandjams


Jul 27, 2005, 1:38 PM
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Maybe you can set it up (like the gear) where if someone REALLY thinks they have a photo that can sell people can still buy it, but they pay the X cents per click for it, or even better add an extra buyme.php page to rc.com, when someone buys something here (photo) you send an automatic email for them to drop ship it and you get commission. It's a great photo, I wouldn't buy it, BUT if I was looking for an awesome rockclimbing photo to buy it would be nice to figure out a way where it could be bought THROUGH rockclimbing.com you guys have an awesome photo database and the ranking helps weed out the average from the buy-worthy. Just a suggestion. I LOVE photos from patagonia, but most of them I would have to buy, why not buy through this sight somehow?


shiggetyshiva


Jul 27, 2005, 2:09 PM
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This strikes me as cheesy commercialism that degrades the site. This practice should not be allowed.

-Jay

I agree, and have noticed some featured front page photos recently that include such links. If anything, something like that could stay in someone's profile, so that if someone is really curious/interested enough, they'll link through that (or just PM the photographer).

Kind of annoying the same way little 3 cent flashlights and toy carabiners come up in EBAY's climbing hardware section, but then again EBAY is designed for sales.


dingus


Jul 27, 2005, 2:26 PM
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You may purchase my comments to this thread.

DMT


mattq331


Jul 27, 2005, 2:28 PM
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You may purchase my comments to this thread.

DMT

And that comment will cost how much exactly?


overlord


Jul 28, 2005, 10:23 PM
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thats cheap.

but maybe you hsould charge ppl for commercial services. you know, add space and such.


Partner tim


Jul 28, 2005, 10:56 PM
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WTF? If someone wants to make prints of their photos available, and there are willing buyers, why not?

I had no idea the site had anything to degrade, from the tone of the comments regularly found herein.


Partner tim


Jul 28, 2005, 11:03 PM
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Maybe you can set it up (like the gear) where if someone REALLY thinks they have a photo that can sell people can still buy it, but they pay the X cents per click for it, or even better add an extra buyme.php page to rc.com, when someone buys something here (photo) you send an automatic email for them to drop ship it and you get commission. It's a great photo, I wouldn't buy it, BUT if I was looking for an awesome rockclimbing photo to buy it would be nice to figure out a way where it could be bought THROUGH rockclimbing.com you guys have an awesome photo database and the ranking helps weed out the average from the buy-worthy. Just a suggestion. I LOVE photos from patagonia, but most of them I would have to buy, why not buy through this sight somehow?

We've been trying to get this rolling for some time now; usually the people who think that they can make it happen, get discouraged when they realize that it's hard work, and hard work sucks. Fortunately, Phil Box (who has been dominating the front page lately, along with Chris and Jorg) is now in the driver's seat for that project, so I do suspect he will make it happen where others had difficulty, having already built his own successful business.

Guys like Chris Brown and Mike Shore and Jorg Zeidelhack might stand to benefit from an easy way to set up slide shows, get large prints fabricated locally for interested buyers, and what have you. Phil is 1) a spectacular photographer in his own right, and 2) a keen businessman, so I'm thinking that we will shortly come up with a system that is of mutual benefit to the site and the top-notch photographers that keep the front page exciting.

Thanks for voicing your support. I agree that it would be nice to get a cut of the action... err, encourage the development of these fine photographers ;-) In all seriousness, watching guys like Mike Shore and Merrick Ales refine their art and mature into professionals, is really exciting and satisfying.


Partner philbox
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Jul 29, 2005, 12:12 AM
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Yep, I`m really wanting to get my teeth into this one. Sure some would say it is crass commercialism but guess what, it takes $ to keep the lights on around here. So it is necessary to monetise certain sections of the site, we are looking at adding services to what we do around here to value add what we do. Nothing will change as far as what is currently enjoyed for free.

The people who cry crass commercialism can still enjoy what they always have for free. They do not have to avail themselves of the additional services.

In fact we will see more and better photography come from this initiative as people are rewarded for their efforts in a monetary fashion. Sure it could be argued that art should be performed for arts sake but of course if someone has a real passion for their art they will pursue that regardless. What we are offering is an outlet so that their art is able to be disseminated in more and varied ways. You can purchase a print that you can keep on your wall forever, that costs money, there is no other delivery system to achieve that end. To those who say that this should be available for free I say nuts to that, how about you start to work at your job for free. The missus would kick you in the ass quicksmart if you got that idea.

We do not see that it is viable to allow huge size images to be downloaded as no doubt copyright violations will occur once control is lost from our end.

I cannot see a downside for the users or the site or the photographers in this proposal.

The one thing I do lack is the coding technical know how to push this through to the end. Fortunately we have some awesome gurus who are working like beavers in the bowels of the rc.com engine room. Good things will be happening soon as a result of all this work.


jt512


Jul 29, 2005, 9:33 AM
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The people who cry crass commercialism can still enjoy what they always have for free. They do not have to avail themselves of the additional services.

You might be able to pull this off tastefully, but you run the risk of turning the site into climbing's version of a skid row flea market. Undoubtedly, you'll bring in more money. But at what expense?

-Jay


trenchdigger


Jul 29, 2005, 9:47 AM
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The people who cry crass commercialism can still enjoy what they always have for free. They do not have to avail themselves of the additional services.

You might be able to pull this off tastefully, but you run the risk of turning the site into climbing's version of a skid row flea market. Undoubtedly, you'll bring in more money. But at what expense?

-Jay

Adding a little optional (to the photographer... and maybe even the user?) button on a photo display page will turn this site into a "skid row flea market"? C'mon, Jay. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I would see this addition as more beneficial than not to all of the parties involved.

~Adam~


heurologer


Jul 29, 2005, 9:49 AM
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Pimping pics is perfect propietary pretentiousness for the pusillanimous people populating this place.


anson


Jul 29, 2005, 9:49 AM
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You might be able to pull this off tastefully, but you run the risk of turning the site into climbing's version of a skid row flea market. Undoubtedly, you'll bring in more money. But at what expense?

Controls would certainly be put in place to moderate the photo selling area, on top of the controls already on the base photo system. Do you really think that Phil is interested in selling posters of badly-exposed butt shots?

-aB


jt512


Jul 29, 2005, 10:07 AM
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The people who cry crass commercialism can still enjoy what they always have for free. They do not have to avail themselves of the additional services.

You might be able to pull this off tastefully, but you run the risk of turning the site into climbing's version of a skid row flea market. Undoubtedly, you'll bring in more money. But at what expense?

-Jay

Adding a little optional (to the photographer... and maybe even the user?) button on a photo display page will turn this site into a "skid row flea market"? C'mon, Jay. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I would see this addition as more beneficial than not to all of the parties involved.

~Adam~

Adam, if you and others would take the time to actually read and comprehend what I wrote, you will see that what you just wrote doesn't disagree at all with what I just wrote. On the other hand, if you look at the photo I linked to in my first post, and then imagine what the photo galleries would look like if everyone photographer were given carte blanche do use the site to market their photos in any manner they chose, then I think that you might see where I'm coming from with the flea market analogy.

-Jay


zozo


Jul 29, 2005, 10:12 AM
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How many of you out there will actually BUY a print. Hav'nt done any market research but an educated guess tells me probably signifigantly less than those who respond to direct mailers.

Would'nt count on this as a revenue source for the site.


trenchdigger


Jul 29, 2005, 10:20 AM
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The people who cry crass commercialism can still enjoy what they always have for free. They do not have to avail themselves of the additional services.

You might be able to pull this off tastefully, but you run the risk of turning the site into climbing's version of a skid row flea market. Undoubtedly, you'll bring in more money. But at what expense?

-Jay

Adding a little optional (to the photographer... and maybe even the user?) button on a photo display page will turn this site into a "skid row flea market"? C'mon, Jay. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I would see this addition as more beneficial than not to all of the parties involved.

~Adam~

Adam, if you and others would take the time to actually read and comprehend what I wrote, you will see that what you just wrote doesn't disagree at all with what I just wrote. On the other hand, if you look at the photo I linked to in my first post, and then imagine what the photo galleries would look like if everyone photographer were given carte blanche do use the site to market their photos in any manner they chose, then I think that you might see where I'm coming from with the flea market analogy.

-Jay

I (and they) did read and comprehend what you wrote.

What you wrote indicates that you doubt attempting "pull this off tastefully" would do anything more than turning this into a "skid row flea market."

I would agree that bold face text advertising that you're selling your photos on your website is lame. But your last post indicates that you believe a little "purchase a print" button on the photo page would degrade this website. With that I disagree.


the_alpine


Jul 29, 2005, 10:24 AM
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I was wondering how long it was going to take for this to come up. For those of you not aware, all the images with the purchase option are mine. There are 3.

Originally, my idea was just as Philbox has explained. I sent out a few PM's and learned that it was already in the works. I posted the images with links as an experiment. How would people react? Would it generate sales? Am I taking advantage of the site?

In the first effort I used the default html which made the links GIANT and BLUE. I've since toned them down to smaller gray print.

Remember, the site takes much effort to run - it would be nice to be able to generate revenue for the guys doing the work.

Personally, there have been a few times when I would have loved to be able to purchase an image I saw on the front page. I hardly think it would bring down the site, but if you think it will - please share how.

So, keep the links or lose 'em?


-Chris Brown


zozo


Jul 29, 2005, 10:32 AM
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Curious to know what % goes to the site and what % goes to the photog?


shakylegs


Jul 29, 2005, 10:35 AM
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There was never any indication that part of the sales from your photos would go for the upkeep of this site. I'm thinking that's part of the problem.
Instead, your photo appeared on the front page, with, as you write, a link in big bold blue letters. So, to the casual observer, it looked like you were "profitting" off this site.
It struck me as weird, but nothing for me to complain about.


jt512


Jul 29, 2005, 10:40 AM
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The people who cry crass commercialism can still enjoy what they always have for free. They do not have to avail themselves of the additional services.

You might be able to pull this off tastefully, but you run the risk of turning the site into climbing's version of a skid row flea market. Undoubtedly, you'll bring in more money. But at what expense?

-Jay

Adding a little optional (to the photographer... and maybe even the user?) button on a photo display page will turn this site into a "skid row flea market"? C'mon, Jay. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I would see this addition as more beneficial than not to all of the parties involved.

~Adam~

Adam, if you and others would take the time to actually read and comprehend what I wrote, you will see that what you just wrote doesn't disagree at all with what I just wrote. On the other hand, if you look at the photo I linked to in my first post, and then imagine what the photo galleries would look like if everyone photographer were given carte blanche do use the site to market their photos in any manner they chose, then I think that you might see where I'm coming from with the flea market analogy.

-Jay

I (and they) did read and comprehend what you wrote.

What you wrote indicates that you doubt attempting "pull this off tastefully" would do anything more than turning this into a "skid row flea market."

I meant doing a tasteful job and turning the site into a flea market as alternatives. I thought that was clear.

-Jay


dingus


Jul 29, 2005, 10:42 AM
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So, keep the links or lose 'em?

I say keep em, but keep them unobtrusive and don't flood the fp with them. You could also just put the link in your sig line?

Cheers
DMT


anson


Jul 29, 2005, 10:45 AM
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So, keep the links or lose 'em?

I say keep em, but keep them unobtrusive and don't flood the fp with them. You could also just put the link in your sig line?

Well, the site's fighting the_alpine there, inasmuch as there is no text on a photo record that is not echoed to the front page. I suppose he could put the link in a comment, so that it only shows on the detail page. That's probably the most 'tasteful' approach for the time being, but it does make it harder for users to notice.

-aB


jt512


Jul 29, 2005, 10:47 AM
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Remember, the site takes much effort to run - it would be nice to be able to generate revenue for the guys doing the work.

Don't kid yourself. The site is already self-supporting, and the people who the company think deserve to get paid do. This line that the managers and owners like to throw out: "keeping the lights on" is not the motive. This site is a business in which the people who make the business valuable get no remuneration.

-Jay


renohandjams


Jul 29, 2005, 10:50 AM
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The people who cry crass commercialism can still enjoy what they always have for free. They do not have to avail themselves of the additional services.

You might be able to pull this off tastefully, but you run the risk of turning the site into climbing's version of a skid row flea market. Undoubtedly, you'll bring in more money. But at what expense?

-Jay

Adding a little optional (to the photographer... and maybe even the user?) button on a photo display page will turn this site into a "skid row flea market"? C'mon, Jay. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I would see this addition as more beneficial than not to all of the parties involved.

~Adam~
I agree that it would benefit both parties. I think some of the amazing photos that these photographers post helps with RCs traffic already. A simple line doesn't seem like a big deal. BUT, if they are making money I'm sure it would be really easy for RC to get some skip off the milk somehow. PHP is such a beautiful programming language for the web, there really isn't anything that can't be done if someones willing to put in the time to do it.


renohandjams


Jul 29, 2005, 10:57 AM
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Remember, the site takes much effort to run - it would be nice to be able to generate revenue for the guys doing the work.

Don't kid yourself. The site is already self-supporting, and the people who the company think deserve to get paid do. This line that the managers and owners like to throw out: "keeping the lights on" is not the motive. This site is a business in which the people who make the business valuable get no remuneration.

-Jay
I think users would be shocked how cheap it really is to host this and run everything, even to build it from scatch. The hardest part in my opinion is having active moderators to keep the forum in check and keep it heading in the right direction. Besides that the owners could let it run itself and check in on it once a month while getting a nice paycheck off of the advertising, email accounts etc... I don't mean to downplay the pay, RC deserves it, if you look at the traffic flow they are getting to this forum it blows you away, it would take a competitor years and years, and years to even come close to the number of members and visitors.

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