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realdeal39
Jul 26, 2005, 6:44 PM
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Are there any easy ways for 3 people to do an easy 5.7, 2.5 pitch route with only one rope? I would be leading all the pitches myself and the route is littered with trees and good belay ledges but I was curious if there is any easy way to do this besides turning the climb into 4 or 5 pitches.
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wings
Jul 26, 2005, 6:51 PM
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Some foolish advice deleted.
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climbinginchico
Jul 26, 2005, 6:55 PM
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Or, the simple way with no rope tossing: Tie one person in higher than the other with an alpine butterfly and 2 lockers. Then the bottom person (stronger climber) ties in normally. The 2 seconds simul climb off one rope and one belay.
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aikibujin
Jul 26, 2005, 7:31 PM
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In reply to: If you have two people who can lead, then once the first leader is up, he / she can get secured and throw their end of the rope down.
This is incredibly bad advice. I don't like to untie myself from the rope when I'm on multipitch, much less toss the rope down, leaving myself with no quick way to retreat. What do you do in an emergency, for example, if a storm rolls in? If the second leader falls and hurt themselves? If anything bad happens, the first leader is going to get stuck at the anchor with no way up and no way down.
If you HAVE TO have two climbers follow you on one rope, do what climbinginchico suggested: have one tie in short, 15 to 20 feet from the end of the rope, and the stronger of the two climbers tie in at the end. But this is not exactly trivial for the followers. The two of them need to be pretty synchronized, climb at roughly the same speed, keeping minimum slack between the two. It's best if climber at the end of the rope not fall, else they may pull the other climber off the wall. When one climber stops to rest right after a crux, the second one is hanging on right at the crux...
In other words, ask yourself if you and your partners are experienced enough to do this?
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stzzo
Jul 26, 2005, 8:14 PM
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And in case it's not obvious - when the second climber reaches the top of the pitch, leave your belay device intact and maintain the belay because the third is still on the end of the rope. Have the second clip in to the anchor (I'd have them clip in twice), then unclip from the rope and untie the knot, keeping the third on belay the entire time.
Better be able to get the knot out, or you'll either have to pass the knot around your belay device or attach the second's device below the knot. Which, of course, greatly increases the potential for error and dropping the third person.
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wings
Jul 26, 2005, 8:16 PM
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In reply to: I don't like to untie myself from the rope when I'm on multipitch, much less toss the rope down, leaving myself with no quick way to retreat. What do you do in an emergency, for example, if a storm rolls in? If the second leader falls and hurt themselves? If anything bad happens, the first leader is going to get stuck at the anchor with no way up and no way down.
Very good point. While I'm not totally opposed to untying myself from the rope, the "being stuck" aspect here is definitely important.
I will delete my original post so that no one chooses to follow that unwise advice. :)
- Seyil
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slobmonster
Jul 26, 2005, 8:30 PM
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In reply to: Better be able to get the knot out, or you'll either have to pass the knot around your belay device or attach the second's device below the knot. Which, of course, greatly increases the potential for error and dropping the third person.
The original question did not include the length of the pitches you are to expect. If this is 30m or less, and you hve a 60m rope, many of these complications can be simply avoided.
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markc
Jul 26, 2005, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: If you have two people who can lead, then once the first leader is up, he / she can get secured and throw their end of the rope down. This is incredibly bad advice. I don't like to untie myself from the rope when I'm on multipitch, much less toss the rope down, leaving myself with no quick way to retreat. What do you do in an emergency, for example, if a storm rolls in? If the second leader falls and hurt themselves? If anything bad happens, the first leader is going to get stuck at the anchor with no way up and no way down.
Agreed. This may work on a single pitch route with a walk-off, but I don't want to strand myself half-way up a route. Have no doubt about it, that's what you're doing. Even if there is a walk-off and they could theoretically rappel to recover you, I wouldn't want to count on it. Should things go bad, you can't necessarily count on anyone else being around to help you.
In reply to: If you HAVE TO have two climbers follow you on one rope, do what climbinginchico suggested: have one tie in short, 15 to 20 feet from the end of the rope, and the stronger of the two climbers tie in at the end. But this is not exactly trivial for the followers. The two of them need to be pretty synchronized, climb at roughly the same speed, keeping minimum slack between the two. It's best if climber at the end of the rope not fall, else they may pull the other climber off the wall. When one climber stops to rest right after a crux, the second one is hanging on right at the crux... In other words, ask yourself if you and your partners are experienced enough to do this?
When people ask for techniques to get by with insufficient gear, it sends up a red flag. It implies that some party members haven't been climbing long enough or seriously enough to have the necessary equipment. If that's the case, there is a lot of responsibility placed on the leader. If you can't come up with two ropes between three climbers, do you have the experience between the three of you for what you're suggesting? The alpine butterfly will work, but I'd want to be sure both seconds were solid at the grade. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't do what you want, but make sure you and your partners know what you're getting into.
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aikibujin
Jul 26, 2005, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: While I'm not totally opposed to untying myself from the rope.
Agreed. Sometimes it's unavoidable, I've untied myself at a belay station 3 pitches from the ground, to work out a REALLY bad kink in my rope. I've also untied myself and switched rope ends when one of my two followers (on double ropes) decided that he was up for leading an easy pitch. But in general, the less I have to untie and re-tie into the rope, the less likely I'll fuck up somewhere and throw myself into the oblivion.
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realdeal39
Jul 26, 2005, 8:58 PM
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thanks everyone. I think I'm just going to go the easy way and give the 3rd guy the boot and take my g/f. He'll understand. She won't.
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wings
Jul 26, 2005, 9:06 PM
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In reply to: thanks everyone. I think I'm just going to go the easy way and give the 3rd guy the boot and take my g/f. He'll understand. She won't.
Smart!
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freeskicolorado
Jul 26, 2005, 9:30 PM
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In reply to: thanks everyone. I think I'm just going to go the easy way and give the 3rd guy the boot and take my g/f. He'll understand. She won't.
Sometimes, the best advice comes from within.
-YoCO
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hammerhead
Jul 28, 2005, 11:58 AM
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WTF, haven't you rented Vertical Limit yet? Do like they did on the opening scene. Just don't fall and have to cut your buddy loose. That's piss him right off.
In all seriousness; probably the best way would be to use two ropes......
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goingup
Jul 28, 2005, 12:21 PM
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In reply to: It's best if climber at the end of the rope not fall, else they may pull the other climber off the wall.
In reply to: WTF, haven't you rented Vertical Limit yet? Do like they did on the opening scene. Just don't fall and have to cut your buddy loose. That's piss him right off.
In reply to: In all seriousness; probably the best way would be to use two ropes...... |
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philfell
Jul 30, 2005, 4:54 PM
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This is just a thought I had. With the methods mentioned above if the third climber fell the rope would come tight to the second before it went to the anchors, possibly causing the second to pulled off the wall, not a big deal since it would be like a top rope fall for both.
But what about having the second and third tie in like suggested above, then tie a figure 8 on a bite just above AND below the second the connect the two 8's with a locker. this way if the third fell the fall would bypass the second and to straight to the anchors.
I'm not suggesting this method to the OP, but to me it sounds like it would make the suggested method a bit safer and could be used in an emergency.
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mburke225
Jul 30, 2005, 5:08 PM
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Tie yourself into the exact middle of the rope and turn the 2.5 pitches into 5 pitches. Hey, at least you'll have 2 belayers (I'm assuming if they don't hav a rope between the both of them, they might not be the safest lead belayers.)
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tenn_dawg
Jul 30, 2005, 5:21 PM
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Dude, you're setting yourself up for failure if you don't obtain another rope for this climb. Just trail a second rope clipping it through pro on traversing parts of the climb and simul belay your two partners up about 20-30 feet apart.
Trying to make one rope work for this is just asking for a clusterfuck mess somewhere along the line. For example, how are you going to change over and belay your 3rd person once the second reaches the belay?
It's possible, but a complicated hassle.
I think a second rope is required gear on most multipitch climbs, and even more so if you are climbing as a threesome. Then again even moreso if you are climbing with an inexperienced party.
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aikibujin
Aug 1, 2005, 5:57 PM
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In reply to: But what about having the second and third tie in like suggested above, then tie a figure 8 on a bite just above AND below the second the connect the two 8's with a locker. this way if the third fell the fall would bypass the second and to straight to the anchors.
Way too complicated. What "goingup" suggested works the same way:
In reply to: In reply to: It's best if climber at the end of the rope not fall, else they may pull the other climber off the wall. You can minimize this possibility by making the butterfly knot loop longer.
In theory this works for a pretty vertical route. However, on wandering routes or traversing routes, you have to leave the loop of rope that the second is clipped into long enough to negate any "zippering" effect from the rope zig zagging. In practice this is still not a great solution, better to just climb with two ropes.
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cedk
Aug 1, 2005, 7:11 PM
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You live in Estes Park and you don't know anyone with an extra rope they'd loan you?
I would love to climb at Lumpy again and I own 3 ropes. Let me sleep on your floor for a week and I'll come up and drag your extra climber up some routes.
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chemicalclimber
Aug 1, 2005, 7:21 PM
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Doubles! I know it isn't a one rope solution, but doubles make multipitch with 3 people soooo much easier! Only real tradeoff is you have to be a bit more skilled with rope management. Good luck, mate. :)
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8flood8
Aug 1, 2005, 7:56 PM
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i did a two pitch route with my friend Zach and my friend Brad back about 2 and a half years ago. We were at enchanted rock doing some easy slabs. 5.6 and .7 We had 1 60m rope. Zach lead both pitches and Brad and i both simul-climbed. Funny tho, Brad is way stronger than me and he went 2nd...
anyway all was well until Zach realized that we didn't have enough rope to rap down. that motherfucking dumbass had me hanging on one bolt for 30 minutes while he and then Brad rapped down and at one point two of us were clipped into a single bolt ... along with the rope... so we could reach the ground.
Talk about wondering if i was going to have to wait for helicopters. i know you already decided to drop the third person from the group, but this story is told for emphasis.
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dino
Aug 1, 2005, 7:59 PM
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You answered your own question; there is no "easy" way to do this. There is a plethora of good climbs in your neighborhood that don't require unnecessary complications.
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stzzo
Aug 1, 2005, 8:05 PM
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Umteenth solution: have them pay $50 each for your "services" -- use it to buy another rope. ;)
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