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king_rat


Aug 1, 2005, 9:40 AM
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English VS US trad Rack.
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Having stumbled across your Website a few weeks ago, I have become quite interested in the trad section(being a trad climber and all). One thing I find interesting is the advice given about what should go in to a traditional rack. It would seem that the standard US trad rack is huge compared to the one a British climber would own and use in Britain. For example here is a list of the gear I would carry on a standard British route at around HVS to E1 (which is 5.9-5.10 I think).

Full rack of friends including half sizes from 0.5 to 4.(Id leave the larger sizes behind if they are not likely to be used)
Two full racks of nuts (1-10)( I could get away with one set and did for many years)
A few RPs (though mine only get used very rarely)
6 or 7 Quickdraws(or ten on a longer route).
3 or 4 slings of various lengths.
4 screw gates(I d probably only take two on a single pitch route)
And one or 2 spare crabs

I do not have any aliens/tricam/ball nuts or any other such peace of gear nor can I envisage any route that I would need such gear at the grade I climb. I dont think its just me, I very rarely see British climbers climbing with much more then the above unless they are climbing at a very high grade and need to protect a particularly tricky route.

Is this a difference in climbing culture, a difference in the nature of the rock (I usually climb on gritstone which either has really good placements or none at all.) or is it something else?

Yours

KingRat


jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 9:47 AM
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What's a crab?


caughtinside


Aug 1, 2005, 9:51 AM
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Hmm, I didn't count, how many friends in a set? I typically carry 13 cams and 12 nuts. Adjusted according to the climb.

Is most of your climbing single pitch, or do you do longer stuff? You need to have a few extra pieces for multipitch, since they'll be in the anchor when you go to p2.


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 9:57 AM
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Quickdraws and trad? Why do you brits think that is a good idea?


king_rat


Aug 1, 2005, 9:59 AM
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Crab is Karabiners


king_rat


Aug 1, 2005, 10:03 AM
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Hmm, I didn't count, how many friends in a set? I typically carry 13 cams and 12 nuts. Adjusted according to the climb.

Is most of your climbing single pitch, or do you do longer stuff? You need to have a few extra pieces for multipitch, since they'll be in the anchor when you go to p2.

On a multi pitch route i would just add a few screw gates to the list above. I think the difference with British routes is that the rock tends to be more varied so on a British multipitch route I would not expect for example to use more then 2 of the same peace of gear.


king_rat


Aug 1, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Quickdraws and trad? Why do you brits think that is a good idea?


Ahh to extend your nut placments! how else would you do it?


king_rat


Aug 1, 2005, 10:09 AM
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here are two quotes from a previous thread

So far I have 2 sets of BD stoppers, cams 1 through 3.5 including 2 two's, the red, green and blue alien, orange metolius tcu, a trango that is about the equalivant of a 1 cam, and a set of HB's offsets. My questions is what other gear do you think I need before I can tackle a 3 or 4 pitch 5.7.

and about the same thread

I think everybody should start with a rack like this, complete but with a few different brands on board to try stuff out

(I would never have bought a rack of this size to begin with. My first rack for single pitches had 4 eccentrics a set of nuts and qucikdraws and 2 screwgates and for about 6 months I got on fine climbing 5.7 or so)


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 10:12 AM
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In reply to:
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Quickdraws and trad? Why do you brits think that is a good idea?


Ahh to extend your nut placments! how else would you do it?

With a sling.

Ask Goran Krop what he thinks about quick draws and trad placements.


davidji


Aug 1, 2005, 10:15 AM
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On a multi pitch route i would just add a few screw gates to the list above.
Bolted belays? That makes a huge difference. Else you probably want 3 (sometimes more) pieces each for the belay at start and end of the pitch. And they actually have to fit.


kimmyt


Aug 1, 2005, 10:17 AM
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Generalizations are fun!


jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 10:17 AM
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I see people here in the US with absolutely huge racks... I have gotten by just fine with a "lite" rack of 6 quicks, 5 slings, a single set of Wild Country nuts and a set of Friends 0-3 including with all sizes except a few of the smaller ones, a 6 crabs. I do run it out sometimes but I have seen people out in JTree with racks that look like they robbed the local gear shop.


jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 10:18 AM
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can't forget the cord and a few lockers


rockrat_co


Aug 1, 2005, 10:22 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Quickdraws and trad? Why do you brits think that is a good idea?


Ahh to extend your nut placments! how else would you do it?

With a sling.

Ask Goran Krop what he thinks about quick draws and trad placements.

I like the quickdraw concept. Either way you will be using a quickdraw or a fastdraw (is that what they are called)...or a sling in the form of a draw. I always carry quickdraws if the pitch will require multiple nut placements!


jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 10:27 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong but I thought Goran died because of a failed biner that possibly had micro cracks.


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 10:35 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong but I thought Goran died because of a failed biner that possibly had micro cracks.

Nobody knows for sure, but his belayer lamented the fact that thay had not changed from the quick draws to slings for their pro on the fatal climb.

Two pieces pulled before the biner broke.

I'm guessing you brits and a few others don't understand that stiff, short, quick draws contribute greatly to lifting and otherwise screwing up gear placements.


jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 10:36 AM
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Who says it has to be short and stiff... it could be long and floppy


atpeaceinbozeman


Aug 1, 2005, 10:59 AM
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There is alot of rock in the US. Drawing comparisons would be hard.
There are longer climbs and more varied rock.(i.e the need for more and different pieces)

I climb mostly on gneiss(metamorphic granite), and certain pieces are utilized more in my home crag, where as when I go to the desert and lug down every usable cam I can get my hands on.


lucas_timmer


Aug 1, 2005, 10:59 AM
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I have RE robots size 1/3 and a WC offset friend size 1.5, size 2/10 wallnuts with doubles on the mediums and size 2,4,6, and 8 RE brass nuts and size 4,5,6 and 7 Camp hexes and a bunch of slings, screw biners and 10 draws and it works on most trad routes in the UK and Ireland.


mattq331


Aug 1, 2005, 11:00 AM
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[quote="dirtineye"]
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I'm guessing you brits and a few others don't understand that stiff, short, quick draws contribute greatly to lifting and otherwise screwing up gear placements.

:roll:

Well that has to be the dumbest comment of the day.

I think "we Brits" will be able to work out what's appropriate in each situation, you think?


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 11:23 AM
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[quote="mattq331"]
In reply to:
In reply to:

I'm guessing you brits and a few others don't understand that stiff, short, quick draws contribute greatly to lifting and otherwise screwing up gear placements.

:roll:

Well that has to be the dumbest comment of the day.

I think "we Brits" will be able to work out what's appropriate in each situation, you think?

All I can say to you, is, here's a nice, "V", for 'victory'. If you brits really think that 4 or 5 slings aand 7 quick draws is a good selection for slinging pro, on trad climbs, I feel sorry for you.

Just so it is perfectly clear, quick draws are a bad choice for trad, because they tend to be short and stiff, and contribute to the lifting and or shifting of gear.

Quick draws belong on sport climbs.


Partner j_ung


Aug 1, 2005, 11:35 AM
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It would seem that the standard US trad rack is huge compared to the one a British climber would own and use in Britain.

Aren't all of your routes like 10 meters long?

Edit: And poorly protected? After watching Hard Grit, I'm under the impression that all British trad routes require are three RPs, a locker and several spotters.

:P :D


grit-freak
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Here, here Matt, couldn't agree more.

Although, I have climbed extensively in both UK and USA, I tend to notice American climbers carry more gear. But then, they often have the luxury of longer multi-pitch routes. Visa vie, climbing gritstone is almost always single pitch affairs with fewer placements. Brits tend to climb with twin ropes more... necessity again in eliminating rope drag where good pro. is rare. Also, none of the guys I climb with in UK would venture out with just quick-draws and no sling runners to extend there placements where needed.

Climb with the gear YOU feel appropriate and then add a few. Study the route and take what you anticipate needing. If you feel comfortable taking a large rack, being prepared for any situation, then do so. If you are a minimalist and prefer less weight, then good on ya. It's down to choice and necessity and I dont think there are any right or wrongs to be applied to the vast variety of rock and situations we all climb in.

That's my two-penneth!


Partner j_ung


Aug 1, 2005, 11:40 AM
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[quote="dirtineye"]
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

I'm guessing you brits and a few others don't understand that stiff, short, quick draws contribute greatly to lifting and otherwise screwing up gear placements.

:roll:

Well that has to be the dumbest comment of the day.

I think "we Brits" will be able to work out what's appropriate in each situation, you think?

All I can say to you, is, here's a nice, "V", for 'victory'. If you brits really think that 4 or 5 slings aand 7 quick draws is a good selection for slinging pro, on trad climbs, I feel sorry for you.

Just so it is perfectly clear, quick draws are a bad choice for trad, because they tend to be short and stiff, and contribute to the lifting and or shifting of gear.

Quick draws belong on sport climbs.

Bear in mind, dirtineye frequents long, filthy, wandering FAs. I heard he carries, like, twenty 48-inch slings or something.


jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 11:46 AM
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[quote="dirtineye"]
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

I'm guessing you brits and a few others don't understand that stiff, short, quick draws contribute greatly to lifting and otherwise screwing up gear placements.

:roll:

Well that has to be the dumbest comment of the day.

I think "we Brits" will be able to work out what's appropriate in each situation, you think?

All I can say to you, is, here's a nice, "V", for 'victory'. If you brits really think that 4 or 5 slings aand 7 quick draws is a good selection for slinging pro, on trad climbs, I feel sorry for you.

Just so it is perfectly clear, quick draws are a bad choice for trad, because they tend to be short and stiff, and contribute to the lifting and or shifting of gear.

Quick draws belong on sport climbs.


To clear this up I never made the quote about brits and short quicks... I actually agree with them on the quicks I carry 6 but I also have the handy 4-6 slings for those wandering placements.... and I do like my long routes.

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