|
|
|
|
wendella
Aug 6, 2005, 3:22 AM
Post #1 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 50
|
I hate to post a question about torn knee cartilage, because there have already been SOOO many posted. (And from reading those it is clear 75% of the ppl on this board have bad knees).
Q1: does anyone have experience or knowledge of non-surgical options for a meniscus tear. I've already had much articular cartilage removed from one knee, which is now a p.o.s., and so I'm not anxious to surgically destroy my other knee as well. Have heard about Rebirthing, which I guess is energy healing, and Prolotherapy, which seems to be injecting _something_ into the joint to cause it to swell and promote your body's natural healing defenses. (all very interesting, I know...) Just wanted to see if anyone has experience with these or other therapies specifically in treating a torn meniscus.
Q2: Is rock climbing inherently a bad sport for people with knee cartilage problems? I've only recently started, but it seemed to be pretty good on my knees. I'm content to climb badly, and not push up out of low squats, or do knee drops, etc. Granted, the hiking part of rock climbing can be tough on the knees, and I've read other posts speaking to this point.
Thanks for your thoughts,
:) Wendy
|
|
|
|
|
d1ll1gaf
Aug 6, 2005, 3:54 AM
Post #2 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 119
|
I have had my right knee rebuilt twice, medial meniscus and ACL (I never learn :) ) and have found that climbing is one of the few things I can do without knee pain (I can do a one leg squat and the doctor advised me to do them to gain strength in my knee but I avoid drop-knees as they do not feel secure through my knee).
However, I would recommend avoiding bouldering. I say this because in my personal experience bouldering impacts (even with a crash pad) hurt the knees, where roped falls seem fine
|
|
|
|
|
pyk64
Aug 6, 2005, 4:09 AM
Post #3 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 5
|
Can't offer any suggestions for Q1 since I've selected the surgical option (4x for meniscus and articular cartilage on R knee and 1x for bone spurs on L ankle).
But as for Q2, I agree with the other post. Climbing (not bouldering) is one of the few things I can still do (other than golf that is. but shouldn't mention that 4 letter word here). Had to give up all other sports - skiing, hiking, mountain climbing. "Risky behavior" for someone with consistent knee issues.
|
|
|
|
|
climbingbetty22
Aug 6, 2005, 4:45 AM
Post #4 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2002
Posts: 1538
|
There is a maneuver I learned in school...McMurray's, that is supposed to gap the joint and help sort of "iron" down the flap of the meniscus that is causing the problem. Not a permanent solution, but depending on how bad your torn meniscus is, it can be performed when you're experiencing pain, it takes 5 seconds to do and may help you be able to put off surgery. Feel free to PM if you have more questions.
|
|
|
|
|
docontherock
Aug 6, 2005, 5:23 AM
Post #5 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2004
Posts: 109
|
I am an orthopedic surgeon so my opinion may be biased but here goes.... A torn meniscus will not only (likely) continue to cause you pain but can cause more damage as it flips around inside your knee dinging up the articular cartilage that covers the ends of your bones. If you have had an MRI and an exam by an orthopedist which are both consistent with a meniscal tear, AND it doesn't seem to be getting better with physical therapy, you should consider haveing the knee scoped and the meniscus fixed or trimmed down. Some people will swear to you that energy healing and other therapies will "cure" you but the reality of these stories and therapies is that they are not scientifically sound. That being said, there is definitely something to be said for the placebo effect and someone praying over your knee and applying mystic crystals will certainly not hurt....letting someone inject a non FDA approved substance into your joint can.
As far as impact goes, climbing is relatively low impact as long as you don't deck.....including coming off a bouldering wall/project.
Feel free to IM me if you have other questions.....
EH
|
|
|
|
|
wendella
Aug 8, 2005, 2:54 AM
Post #6 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 50
|
Thanks all for your comments/PMs.
d1ll1gaf - very jealous that you can do one-legged squats after surgery. My "bad" knee always hurt way too much to even try that. I'm really hoping this surgery won't be as damaging to my other knee as the first.
Good comments about bouldering, hiking, etc. (but wondering how to get to outdoor rock whilst avoiding hiking... hmm).
pyk64 - 4 times seems like a lot. Would be interested to know more about what your experience has been managing your right knee, esp re: the ongoing pain and lack of strength/mobility caused by removal of so much articular cartilage. ...how to know when your pushing yourself too far vs just "to be expected" pain, etc.
Thanks again. May be quite a while before these knees are up to try climbing again...
|
|
|
|
|
pyk64
Aug 10, 2005, 4:07 AM
Post #7 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 5
|
Managing activities with a bum knee:
My decision was to consciously give up all the things that I used to do that could speed up the degeneration of the knee. It's tough, but the quality of life is much more enjoyable with less pain and fewer potential surgeries. But I do agree that rock climbing (with short approaches) is something that can be pursued without detriment.
The pain is managed by some good pharmaceuticals and I have to remember not do overdo it. My range on the knee is limited to some degree so I have to really set up certain climbing moves like a knee drop on that side. But all in all, I just enjoy climbing so I'm not too bummed about it.
I guess my attitude is this. Before all my knee issues, there were a gazillion things to enjoy about life. Now, there is a gazillion minus....oh a dozen or so things to enjoy.
Good luck with your knee and how you adapt to it.
|
|
|
|
|
crotch
Aug 10, 2005, 4:15 AM
Post #8 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2003
Posts: 1277
|
Docontherock,
I've heard something about injections of synthetic cartilage. Could you elaborate?
|
|
|
|
|
bear829
Aug 10, 2005, 5:05 AM
Post #9 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1407
|
I tore my meniscus several years ago during skating, and I was told that it was not in need of surgical repair. I wish I would have gotten a second opinion. I still lots of trouble with it. Usually within a year of being scoped and it being fixed, you are back doing things that you did before (within reason hehehe) but I am working on my fifth year of rehabilitation because of the way that it decided to heal without the sugery. I would get two opinions, but I would say to go ahead with it. Unfortuneatly, you are prolly gonna end up with some soreness all your life, not a big deal though, not something you couldn't deal with. I hope everything goes well.
|
|
|
|
|
letsclimb4704
Aug 10, 2005, 6:11 PM
Post #10 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 14
|
I have a friend who did it to her knee twice and still has aches and pains but she is an avid runner and hasn't had problems since. Maybe you should try a new surgeon.
|
|
|
|
|
docontherock
Aug 11, 2005, 1:01 AM
Post #11 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2004
Posts: 109
|
You are probably referring either to a substance called sodium hyaluronate or a procedure called autologous chondrocyte implantation. sodium hyaluronate is refined by several companies from rooster combs and marketed under the tradenames Synvisc, Hyalgan, and Supartz, among others. It is administered as either a single or a series of injections and costs several hundred dollars. The people who market it claim around 80% success but the reality is probably closer to 60% and the duration is really not very consistent from patient to patient. One study showed that cortisone injections were just as good.
Autologous chondrocyte implantation, or ACI, was developed by a company called Genzyme. With this procedure, a small sample of cartilage is taken from your knee during arthroscopy and sent to Genzyme. They place it in culture media and force the cartilage cells to divide until there are a certain number of them. Then, you go back to the OR and the surgeon injects them into the cartilage defect in your knee under a piece of soft tissue which is "glued" in place with glue made from your blood. Just getting the cells grown will cost you (or the insurance company) over 16K not including the cost of the surgeries. A study published last year said it is no better than microfracture at 2 years post-op. Microfracture is where a surgeon uses an awl to cause the bone in a cartilage defect to bleed allowing stem cells from your marrow to form a new type of cartilage in the defect. (Only one surgery, no 16K fees....)
Hope this helps....
EBH
|
|
|
|
|
jamescuth
Aug 11, 2005, 2:13 AM
Post #12 of 12
(2114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2004
Posts: 65
|
i had a full knee reconstruction when i was 13, including an ACL and some bone fragments being pinned back to my femur, following a pretty massive football injury. two surgeries and the knee has been bulletproof ever since.
a friend had an almost identical problem when we were 16, injured the same way. but it took him about 2 years and several operations to come good. as far as i could determine, the only difference between our cases was the surgeon. I think i got lucky with a great surgeon, and my friend got unlucky with a less skilled (although not necessarily bad) surgeon.
i can appreciate that luck and our own body's ability to heal and a whole heap of other factors (rehab, patient complicity etc) have a bearing on clinical outcomes of surgical procedures, but i still think anyone considering surgery should go to enormous trouble to make sure they are going under the knife with the best doc they can find (& afford) in charge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
