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andy_reagan
Aug 6, 2005, 6:18 PM
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Just curious what your opinion about using pitons in lieu of a bolt if given the oppurtunity on a modern sport route is. Hypothetical situation; you are developing a new modern sport route and spy the chance to pound in a bomber piton instead of placing another bolt. Do you???
I understand a lot of this is local ethics, but I'd like to hear from the climbing community as a whole.
Peace,
Andy
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grk10vq
Aug 6, 2005, 6:41 PM
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I wouldn't want to fall on a piton with an unknown history and would question its validity as the years went on--plus who doesn't back up a piton on an older route----those who don't should start.
With the rate of sport climbs growing and climbers knowledge decreasing
I'd question it.
Thats not to say you don't know what you're doing, but I've watched a few clueless ones with a hand drills......scary.
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overlord
Aug 6, 2005, 7:15 PM
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id rather put a bolt in. its more durable and easier to replace.
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cfnubbler
Aug 6, 2005, 7:40 PM
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It ain't a "modern sport route" with old school iron in it. If you want a modern sport route, just drill the damn thing.
A friend of mine fixed a LA on an otherwise all bolted route at an established sport climbing crag and took a lot of flack for it. Especially since it protects the .11d crux and is the second clip on a route in a damp climate. Ground fall is the definite consequence if the pin pulls. To make matters even stanger, there's a bomber medium sized wire about 6" below (which I place every time)! But that's another issue all together...
-Nubbler
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 6, 2005, 7:50 PM
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I have done it a few times. things to consider. A pin is usualy more expensive than a bolt and is less reliable. In Most cases if it is a sport climb then bolt it but if you are puting it up on lead and it is a mix of gear and bolts then you will most likley be tempted to pound iron as it is faster and easier than drilling on lead. I have gone back at a later date and replaced a suspect pin with a good bolt.
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alpinerock
Aug 10, 2005, 12:49 AM
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Actually in southern utah many sport climbs are put up with glued in pins, because the standard expansion bolt destroys the soft sandstone, so a glued in pin is as bomber as it gets.
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climbsomething
Aug 10, 2005, 12:53 AM
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In reply to: I wouldn't want to fall on a piton with an unknown history and would question its validity as the years went on--plus who doesn't back up a piton on an older route----those who don't should start. |
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musicman
Aug 10, 2005, 6:08 AM
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In reply to: Actually in southern utah many sport climbs are put up with glued in pins, because the standard expansion bolt destroys the soft sandstone, so a glued in pin is as er as it gets.
yeah, the bolts in that sandstone have a super low pull out strength, the glue in bolts and drilled pitons are totally er in certain situations.
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flipnfall
Aug 10, 2005, 9:57 AM
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It would be better to bolt than to use a fixed piton. Fixed pitons leave rock scarring when they have to be replaced and they aren't as strong as bolts. I've had to clip many old fixed pitons and not one of them seemed all that bomber. They were there only because first ascents on the routes were in the 1970s.
GT
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verticon
Aug 22, 2005, 5:21 PM
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Registered: Aug 22, 2005
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In the 90's I've put up about 25 routes in a brend new area, mostly on pitons. By that time, if I needed a bolt I had to manually drill the hole (hammer & home made chisel...). Recently I bolted 2 of the old routes and I had trouble removing the pitons. Many of them seemed stronger than the bolts. Some of the routes have become "classics" and people are still clipping the old pitons without fear...
On the other hand, I've seen good looking bolts broken because they cracked while tightening, and I saw bad anchors that you can pull out by hand because the glue they used for fixing was not stirred enough.
Now, the question may change into this one:
If visually inspecting the peg/bolt while clipping is not enough, how high is the acceptable risk ? Does it make any difference if you clip in pegs or bolts as far as they were tested by others ? Probably you're not the first one climbing the route...
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