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Clove Hitch for belay??
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melonhead


Jul 23, 2002, 3:37 PM
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Clove Hitch for belay??
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Hey Guys,
This might be a dumb question, but who said I was smart?! Ha Ha. OK, I've read in some "solo aid" topics about people using a clove hitch as a belay knot instead of using, say a gri gri. How is this possible? Isn't pulling up rope rough, if at all possible? I know when I use the hitch, they're tight with no room for slack unless I "feed" it. Someone shed some light on this for me.

Thanks a lot.


mountainmonkey


Jul 23, 2002, 3:52 PM
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Basically, since aid climbing is so slow, when you are ready to move up you loosen (DO NOT UNTIE) the clove hitch and give enough slack for your next move/placement. BE SURE YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF BACK-UP KNOT. This is also handy for short fixing.
Casey


kyhangdog


Jul 23, 2002, 3:53 PM
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It sucks. Not a good system in my opinion. Pretty safe, but really hard to feed the rope. Some people have suggested using a sling makes the clove hitch not cinch up; I don't believe it. I top-rope self-belay with a Bachman knot and back-up knots every few feet, which is ok, but not like a real partner. A friend of mine has a Silent Partner, but that seems like a hassle as well. Lead a pitch, fix a rope, rap down, clean the pitch again? Too much of a hassle for me.


melonhead


Jul 23, 2002, 4:20 PM
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Ya, I have NO intention on using this system. I was just curious about it. Thanks guys.


bigdan


Jul 23, 2002, 4:57 PM
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I don't understand why so many people hate the clove hitch method so much. It's safe and, in my opinion, plenty easy to move. It only takes about 10 seconds per placement to adjust it for the next piece.

The whole idea of the clove hitch is that it's easy to loosen, tighten, move, whatever. I've never had a problem moving quickly with it.

Everybody has their preferences, I guess.


atg200


Jul 23, 2002, 5:37 PM
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I don't care for free climbing with a clove hitch, but it works great for aid climbing. I've used it on many many pitches, and taken one big fall onto it as well as several smaller ones.

Using a friction knot like a bachmann is a really bad idea.


bigdan


Jul 23, 2002, 10:43 PM
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Yeah, when I talk about using a clove for solo, I definitely mean for aid. I don't like it for free stuff either, mostly because it's a pain to manipulate with only one hand.

As far as the friction knot as a bachman goes....I second that motion!


phil_nev


Jul 24, 2002, 12:05 AM
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What about a munter hitch??
Safe to belay and rap of, easy to tie....
May be usefull to you, espesialy if you drop or loose your belay device.


fishypete


Jul 24, 2002, 12:47 AM
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Phil phil phil....these guys are talking about self belay whilst aid soloing - not with a partner or whilst rapping.

Cheers,

Fishy.

PS: I am jealous you are so close to Araps!



joemor


Jul 24, 2002, 12:49 AM
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phil, its for aid solo self belay not actual belay.


joe


kyhangdog


Jul 24, 2002, 3:57 AM
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As far as the Bachman goes... it's only there for back-up really. I clip into knots tied in the rope every three or four feet. So, the Bachman is really just head pro. IK agree, don't ever just use a friction knot while top-rope soloing.


glockaroo


Jul 24, 2002, 5:27 AM
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I think the clove hitch method is OK for an improvised, on-the-spot technique. I used it on the first pitch of the Prow when I was toting up loads and decided off the cuff to solo the first pitch and get a line fixed. If you own a grigri, though, it's much better for doing a lot of solo work.

Also the clove hitch tends to really cinch down in a fall. When I fell on a clove hitch belay once in NC I felt like I needed some vise grips to get the damn thing untied.

Of course the fact that I weigh 228 lbs. w/ no gear might have been a factor...


atg200


Jul 25, 2002, 8:26 AM
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A long thin Lost Arrow works beautifully for prying apart a super tight clove hitch. I carry one even on clean routes now for that purpose.


Partner philbox
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Jul 25, 2002, 3:35 PM
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   When I`m using the clove hitch method of solo aid climbing I will always use two clove hitches with a bit of slack between the them. I will also place an oval crab within the knot to use as a handle for easy adjustment. Just pull the oval and then the clove hitch uncinches to provide an easy adjustment.

When you`ve pulled all the slack out of the slack between the two clove hitches then reintroduce some more slack into the system by adjusting the clove hitch on the tail end of the rope.

This way you always have a backup knot and the whole system is easy to use and adjust.

...Phil...


clmbnski


Jul 26, 2002, 7:25 AM
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So when you are aid soloing do you just carry the excess rope on your back?


freeclmr


Jul 27, 2002, 9:39 AM
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I love the clove hitch and always use it when solo-aid climbing. Since I solo 99% of the time, I have never really considered adjusting the knot after each piece as time consuming...it is just a part of the routine. However, the clove hitch does not act as my primary brake system. I wear a Petzel chest harness with a ATC set-up like a standard belay. This keeps the clove hitch from cinching tight after falls and keeps the clove hitch from rolling around and deforming. I also tie in short with no more rope than to keep me from hitting a ledge or grounding out.

Freeclimb soloing on a toprope is how I train a push my freeclimbing limits. I use a Ushba accender which was made specifically for freeclimbing a fixed line and is marketed as a solo device for climbing fixed lines. It allows the rope to run smoothly through the device as I climb and catches me everytime I fall, even on dynos, and does not harm the rope in anyway. Everyone I let try this device has ended up buying one because it frees you up from ever having to rely on a climbing partner again.


freeclmr


Jul 28, 2002, 10:04 PM
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to answer CLMBNSKI,.....on vertical or greater than vertical walls I allow the rope to feed from my open haulbag (used like a rope bucket). If the terrain is more rugged, and has more things to snag a rope, I carry the rope in a backpack. I try to avoid the pack though, because between the harness, chest harness, and all the gear, the backpack tends to get in the way...but it is still more convienient than a stuck rope!


justsendingits


Jul 28, 2002, 10:39 PM
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Try using a rope bag or small haul bag clipped to your harnes,that is the way I use it when soloing traversing pitches!

R


freeclmr


Jul 30, 2002, 11:19 PM
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sounds workable, but, Does it get in the way of free climbing and flop around; banging against the back of your legs with each step?
Thanks


justsendingits


Jul 30, 2002, 11:36 PM
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I had no problem with taking the rope in a bag with me on lead. It sure beat the hell out of having to reverse a traverse to free the rope!!!
But the extra weight did suck.Also I am going to try tying the haul line on the end of the lead rope,so I can just pull it up(on vertical pitches)when I get to the belay.Need a big rope bag for that though,maybe I can flake both ropes.anybody have any thoughts on this or any method of flakeing 120 meters of rope while I solo?

R

[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-08-01 23:18 ]


blindslap


Jul 30, 2002, 11:52 PM
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the hitch would give a very dynamic fall though. it slips at about 1000 pounds


freeclmr


Aug 1, 2002, 4:33 PM
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the clove hitch slipping at about 1000 lbs. just supports my solo set-up using a standard belay on a chest harness to the clove-hitch on the waist harness. And, don't forget, tie in short enough to avoid those ledges below!!!


phil_nev


Oct 30, 2002, 6:44 AM
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ok, anyone else wana tell me im wrong


chuque


Oct 30, 2002, 7:47 AM
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Why would you want to tie a clove hitch when I've got a silent partner for sale (cheap!)?


grippedclimber


Oct 31, 2002, 11:39 AM
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  Modified Gri Gri is so the way to go!

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