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kimgraves
Aug 20, 2005, 12:28 AM
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Hi Gang,
I have a question about sleeping bags for walls.
I have a chance to trade my down bag, which is too warm (and down), for an Integral Designs Andromeda Strain. This is a synthetic Primaloft and Pertex bag rated to 40°F. I tried it out today and think it's sweet. My question: assuming a bivi sac, synthetic belay jacket, and synthetic undies, hat, etc. plus a covered ledge, does this class of bag offer me enough of a safety margin for a storm such as the one that came through last October?
Your advice is appreciated.
Thanks, Kim
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musicman
Aug 20, 2005, 1:24 AM
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I'm not wall climber (yet!!) so my advice won't be the best, but what i've found on mountains with my bag (synetic, cheap, not so nice or warm) is if i just pack a small roll up fleece blanket it makes it SO much warmer. I wear thermals, socks, and a hat in it with the fleece blanket wrapped around my torso and legs and it really heats that sucker up.
my .02 cents, or maybe only .01 cents since i'm no aid climber.
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lambone
Aug 20, 2005, 2:59 AM
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Kim,
I think a 40 degree bag in October is pushing it, pushing dangerous.
I was in the Valley during the big and tragic October storm last year, and I was sleeping cold in Camp 4 in my 30 degree bag.
It was snowing and icing up on the wall, and damn cold, probably in the 20's at least, add that to being wet and you are basically screwed.
Perhaps if you were doing a short wall, the weather window was good, and you had a good synthetic belay parka you'd be ok. But a week long El Cap adventure would be risky IMHO, be cause you can't allways predict a storm that far out in Oct. For instance, that storm last year hit at least a few days earlier then what they were predicting a week before it came (I know because I was watching the weather closely before my vacation).
Bottom line, I use a 40 degree bag in the summer, but I would recomend a warmer bag in Oct. With bivi sac and belay coat also. And don't forget the foam pad, that is crucial!
Short wall like the Leaning Tower or Column and you may be ok with good layers and perhaps a stove for hot tea and hot waterbottles for inside the bag. Of course it could also be in the 80's in October...
Primaloft is an awesome fill material though, and ID gear is awesome!
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brutusofwyde
Aug 22, 2005, 1:01 AM
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That class of bag is fine for walls.
Just don't use it during shoulder season (like October) or unsettled weather (any time)
Brutus
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epic_ed
Aug 22, 2005, 6:01 AM
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Dave Turner was one of the climbers who got rescued off the Cap'n in after that storm last October. He hunkered down one pitch from the top of Tempest for a few days, and when the weather broke he found the pitch to still be unclimbable. He never called for a rescue, but took one when offered after YOSAR had plucked everyone else of the face. He was certainly cold, wet and miserable for a number of days during that epic. After speaking with him this summer, he credits his relatively good condition at the time of rescue due to a 20 degree synthetic bag, and most importantly, two insulation pads -- one outside his bivy sack, the other inside.
I personally wouldn't get on a multi-day Cap'n route late in the season with anything less than a 20 degree synthetic bag, and I really like Dave's idea of two pads. Depending on the time of year, I'll probably do the same in the future.
Ed
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flamer
Aug 22, 2005, 6:13 AM
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I fully credit a 5 degree synthetic bag with saving my ass on a wall.
This was in the Black canyon in early May. I had a Bibler big wall bivi sack and my synthetic bag(no fly- which wasn't the best move). It rained and snowed all night long, a couple of hours in I was laying in a small water fall. The bivi sack start leaking early on...the sleeping bag was wet but warm.
I'll still use down on walls as early as June and as late as Sept. to save weight...but getting into that "shoulder" season I'm all syn. and no less than 20 degree's.
josh
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lambone
Aug 22, 2005, 6:47 AM
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Ed, Nick and I were chatting with Dave at that time on the Motorolas, all he wanted to talk about was chicks and beer and pizza, then he'd yel when another chunck of ice clocked him in the head and start joking again.
You could tell by the tone in his voice when he was really starting to get cold though...pretty creepy as we could offer nothing but kind words at the valley floor.
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flamer
Aug 22, 2005, 2:46 PM
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In reply to: Bad news about the Bibler bivi leaking. What's that all about?
I was pretty damn dissappointed myself. My partner had an OR that was fine all night. I think it was the nylon bottom that leaked....the water seemed to run off the top then soak through the bottom. Not the greatest design really. Food for thought...If we'd taken a fly we probably would have finished the wall....it would have sucked but it would have made it possible. Without it we had to bail. Had I not had a syn. bag there is little doubt in my mind that hypothermia would have occurred.
josh
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jelliott
Aug 22, 2005, 3:53 PM
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Flamer: What kind of OR bivi?
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flamer
Aug 22, 2005, 6:36 PM
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In reply to: Flamer: What kind of OR bivi?
Hmmmm...I'll have to ask him. I know it was the "top entry" type but as for the name of the bag in question I'll have to ask him....
josh
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lambone
Aug 23, 2005, 6:36 AM
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Hey Kim,
I may be repeating myself, but you know it is possble that a 40 dgeree would work. However if you only could chose one bag, it's smarter to play it safe with the warmer one. Optimally you could have both and pick the best for the weather, given minimal nights on the wall.
I use a 40 degree REI primaloft bag for most walls in the summer. It's pretty cheap and a good bag.
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jelliott
Aug 23, 2005, 3:33 PM
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What about down bags on the wall, is it that likely that you will get it wet and kill the warm rating?
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kimgraves
Aug 23, 2005, 4:05 PM
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In reply to: What about down bags on the wall, is it that likely that you will get it wet and kill the warm rating?
It is almost a certainty that during a storm your sleepingbag will get wet and you'll be left with a useless lump if the bag is down. Rain doesn't just fall down during a big storm. If falls up and sidways and everyway at once. It's possible to stay sheltered in a good ledge, but it's not possible to stay dry. If you're climbing in the Yos and YOSAR pulls you off, if they find you with a down back you might well have to pay for the rescue. (read $1,000's) And if you're not climbing in the Yos and there is no YOSAR around to save your ass, then you're in the deepest of shit. The general consensus is no natural fibers on the wall. I'm just a BWT, but that's the reason I'm looking to trade my down bag in for a syn.
Best, Kim
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jelliott
Aug 23, 2005, 4:13 PM
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sounds like i will be doing the same
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kimgraves
Aug 23, 2005, 4:30 PM
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In reply to: Hey Kim, you know it is possble that a 40 dgeree would work. However if you only could chose one bag, it's smarter to play it safe with the warmer one.
Hey Matt,
Thanks. Yea I too think that a 40 degreer would work with a bivi sack, a big belay coat, thick undies, a hat, and windproofs. But what do I gain from that? 2 lbs? And you'd be really uncomfortable with all those layers on. And if it's really the shit for several days, you can get pretty worn down by that. A warmer bag might help maintain a physiological comfort that the lighter bag wouldn't. So, as I said, I'm convinced. Now if I could only get this guy to call me back so we can do the trade!
Best, Kim
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lambone
Aug 24, 2005, 6:47 AM
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there is definately something to be said for sleeping well at night on a wall. it sucks if you are chilly and wake up numerous times because you just don't get the rest you need...
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brutusofwyde
Aug 24, 2005, 11:03 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Bad news about the Bibler bivi leaking. What's that all about? I was pretty damn dissappointed myself. My partner had an OR that was fine all night. I think it was the nylon bottom that leaked....
I have seen this with several Bibler products (the nylon bottom leaking, that is.) I now routinely re-waterproof the floors of all my Bibler shelters (I-tent, Big Wall Bivi) every year.
Always test your bivi bag before a wall: get in it, in the shower, for 5-10 minutes and see (if and) where the water is coming in.
Saved me a few terrible nights.
Brutus
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