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timpanogos


Jul 25, 2002, 6:56 PM
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Team of 3
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I'm looking for information on 3 climbers in a team doing none-face routes that would not allow for both follows to climb at the same time.

Any single rope techniques? Lead or second drag up 2nd rope? Belay/anchor station things to watch for? etc.

Thanks in advance

Chad


radistrad


Jul 26, 2002, 8:41 AM
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ideally you (the leader) will have two ropes, one for each of the followers. You should use a Reverso to belay both of them at the same time (look this topic up, its been beaten around here for a while).

I've tied two in to the end of the rope befor but I do not recomment this it is more dangerous.


timpanogos


Jul 26, 2002, 12:42 PM
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Yea, traversals - the second would need to tag the rope, unclipping the Top Rope and reclipping the tagged rope, right?

I have simulied as a 3rd with another 2nd belayed by the reverseo - I'm sold on the reverso if the two can stagger climb, or simul climb (like on a face). However, several of the climbs that I'm thinking about are Arete, or crack systems where one at a time would be needed - I suppose a reasonable amount of stagger would be ok, but on a 3-4 pitch climb, the need for speed would not be a driving factor.

If (big if) you could accuratly throw the rope from the upper belay station to a lower one, would it be unsafe to use one rope, and daisychain/runner tie off the second to the anchor and toss the rope back down to the 3rd?



rck_climber


Jul 26, 2002, 1:14 PM
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Note: This is more dangerous, so gauge your abilities and experience before doing it.

But, having said that...

My prefered way of climbing with 3 (with one rope to save weight), so that the two followers are climbing at the same time is to do one of two things:

1. Have the leader lead up as normal with one rope. Then the first follower ties an overhand figure-8 knot about 10'-15' from the end and clip in. The bottom guy ties into the end of the rope as usual. Then, they simul-climb the pitch so that they are roughly that distance apart (can be longer if you wish, but that's just what we're comfortable with).

2. Is a variation of #1. But if you're planning on needing every last inch of your lead rope and can't afford to have a guy tied into the last 15' of it, simply link the two with a short (10'-15') piece of dynamic rope (guess static would work too, I just use pieces of my old retired ropes). This method would see the first follower tie into the end of the lead rope as per usual, but also tie into the "top" end of the short piece. The second follower, then just ties into the "bottom" end of the short rope and they simul-climb together as per #1.

We only use this technique on routes that are well within our ability level and where time and weight are of the essence (i.e. alpine routes).

Hope this helps.

Mick

EDIT: Fixed my 4th-grade education spelling errors .

[ This Message was edited by: rck_climber on 2002-07-26 13:16 ]


ergophobe


Jul 26, 2002, 3:32 PM
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Now that they're finally marketing (not just selling in some obscure place) a belay device (Reverso) for three-person teams in the US, everyone should have one. People have been climbing this wayin Europe for a long time.

Leader leads on half ropes (preferably not twins). Each follower gets one. Second person takes off and the Third takes down the belay. By the time that is done, there is enough distance between the climbers - it doesn't matter if it's a crack, arrete, face, chimney or whatever. We climbed the Narrows on the Steck-Salathe this way.

The Second person cleans the gear until the Third starts to catch up. Then Second just leaves stuff to slow down the third to keep the distance even. Stronger person climbs as the Second, weaker one as the third.

The Second starts reracking the gear while the Third finishes the pitch. When the Third gets there, the Leader takes off. It's generally better to lead in blocks. Restacking between leads helps, but the Third can do this while the Leader starts up.

To change leads, the Third clips straight into the belay and unties, handing his end to the new leader. The former leader takes the other end of that rope and hands it to the Third. The rope is now properly stacked.

Tom


mountainmonkey


Jul 29, 2002, 9:05 AM
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You can also use the Kong GiGi(sp?) - uses the same concept as the Reverso but has been around a lot longer. Downside is you cant belay a leader with it or rappel with it - only good for bringing up followers and you can belay two at the same time.

I have used the Reverso/half rope method for bringing up two inexperienced followers on a long easy face (first flatiron near Boulder,CO) and it worked great. It is the most efficient method for a team of three on an easy free climb. On the traversing sections be sure to clip both ropes through a directional anchor to protect both followers. Also, it is best to use a equalized cordelette for all the belay anchors. I guess you could also use ascenders to belay followers but be sure to place back up knots.
cheers

casey


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