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builttospill
Sep 2, 2005, 10:16 PM
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I have been contemplating (but am not set on) a climb of Rainier in the late fall/early winter. Not being from the Northwest, I'm not sure what conditions on the mountain would be like that time of year. I've been doing technical climbing, and I've been to altitude, so that's not an issue, I just don't know this particular mountain.
I had been looking at Liberty Ridge as the most likely route, but other options are welcome, although I'd like to stay away from a couple routes in particular. Any idea how conditions would be around Thanksgiving time? I'll be seeking a variety of guidebooks, but I'd like to get an idea as quickly as possible so I can get my work schedule adjusted. Anyways, anyone been up there in mid-november to early december? What's it like, weather-wise and condition-wise?
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td
Sep 7, 2005, 2:24 AM
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try asking at
http://www.cascadeclimbers.com
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builttospill
Sep 7, 2005, 3:09 AM
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Thanks for the response. I was discouraged from the attempt by NWer's from another board, so I'll forgo it for now. figured it was a long shot anyway. Thanks though.
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cdog
Sep 7, 2005, 3:23 AM
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not sure what you're looking for exactly that time of year. Liberty Ridge (and glaciated routes in general) would be "interesting", probably with a couple layers of fresh snow concealing hard water ice and open crevasses. Not exactly ideal.
Ridges such as Kautz Cleaver and Success Cleaver, never popular, are reasonable options this time of year because there are no crevasses to worry about and choss is somewhat stabilized by the aforementioned snow.
Just my 2 cents.
PS--the NWers are pretty knowledgeable if you can filter out the sprayed rants. It's their duty to pick apart an out-of-towner's questions!
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builttospill
Sep 7, 2005, 6:46 AM
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The sprayed rants are why I avoided cascadeclimbers with this question. Figured I could get a decent idea of the chances without needing to open that can of worms.
I'll check out those routes you mentioned....I'm not familiar with them. I asked this on another board....but around what time in the winter do ascents of DC, Liberty Ridge, etc become feasible because they aren't so open? Like I said, I'm unfamiliar with glacier travel for the most part.
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cdog
Sep 8, 2005, 5:16 AM
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In reply to: around what time in the winter do ascents of DC, Liberty Ridge, etc become feasible because they aren't so open?
november is more ice climbing time, and routes like the kautz glacier and mowich face can be done, but expect a solid grade bump from standard ratings (i.e., kautz is usually a II but could become a III, Mowich Face would likely push a V around thanksgiving)
I can't really imagine liberty ridge being in good shape until spring, but off-season ascents are not unheard of...
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atg200
Sep 8, 2005, 2:13 PM
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In reply to: but around what time in the winter do ascents of DC, Liberty Ridge, etc become feasible because they aren't so open? Like I said, I'm unfamiliar with glacier travel for the most part.
you have to be kidding, right? learning to deal with glaciers is very simple compared to dealing with avalanche terrain, huge fresh snowpacks, and glaciers that are still present. you really should either learn to travel on glaciers(not hard - just pick up glacier travel and crevasse rescue by andy selters and spend a few days practicing), or stick to routes like the south side on mt adams.
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builttospill
Sep 9, 2005, 6:48 AM
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cdog: I figured it was really dependent on the conditions that winter, but a ballpark was helpful, thanks.
atg200: It's not that hard to imagine that I don't know much about glacier travel, considering I've never climbed in the Pac NW or anywhere with glaciers is it? I realize it's simple, and I'll learn when I can, but my focus has largely been on other climbing goals lately. But thanks for the book recommendation. I will obviously be learning a lot more in depth before attempting a route on Rainier or similar glaciated peaks (won't be happening for several months since I've abandoned the foolhardy notion of going in November).
Thanks guys.
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atg200
Sep 9, 2005, 2:01 PM
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the thing i found hard to believe is that you thought a winter attempt would be easier/safer than a summer attempt! good luck on a summer attempt after doing some practicing. you might consider something like the mazama glacier on adams or something on baker as a glaciated warmup that will be less of an ordeal than rainier.
you can practice most of the glacier skills like building snow anchors, raising systems, escaping the self arrest, etc. on snow slopes anywhere. i still do a refresher for myself every now and then before a big trip on a safe slope where i live in utah. if you really want to get into skill building, you could mark some practice "crevasses" in a grassy field, tie in with some partners, and practice navigation in a team around obstacles. you'll look like a tool, but it is very good practice.
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cdog
Sep 9, 2005, 2:07 PM
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if you have some ice climbing experience seriously consider the Kautz Glacier route. This was my first route on Rainier and was excellent in that it avoids the crowds offers 2 pitches of moderate ice (~50 deg). In June this would be mostly snow and in August/Sept (when I went) there would be more ice and more fun.
If you're looking for something easier then consider the Emmons/Winthrop. Probably the easiest route on the mountain and significantly less crowded than the DC.
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builttospill
Sep 9, 2005, 7:29 PM
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Sorry atg...didn't mean to make it seem like I thught winter would be easier. I don't.
Thanks for the advice guys.
Oh, atg....where in Utah do you practice? I spend a fair amount of time in LCC in the winter, and a little in BCC, so I was just wondering.
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scottquig
Sep 9, 2005, 8:01 PM
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In reply to: Like I said, I'm unfamiliar with glacier travel for the most part.
If you're unfamiliar with glacier travel, there's no way you should be on Mt. Rainier. You said you'd been doing technical climbing and been at that altitude. This is not what you'd experience on Rainier at all. I hope you don't die.
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kobaz
Sep 9, 2005, 9:03 PM
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Speaking of glacier travel, for someone like myself who has never been on one with the idea of eventually venturing out into areas with glaciers and cravasses and things... what would be a good starting point. I've done moderate snowfield climbs and things like that, but never anything serious, and nothing out on a glacier.
And please don't say go find a guide and go with your buddy who knows, I'm intersted in things like the navigating a grassy field in a rope team type of ideas to prepare for glacier travel.
And I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but the topic came up and I figured this would be a good place to ask.
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fear
Sep 9, 2005, 9:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Like I said, I'm unfamiliar with glacier travel for the most part. If you're unfamiliar with glacier travel, there's no way you should be on Mt. Rainier. You said you'd been doing technical climbing and been at that altitude. This is not what you'd experience on Rainier at all. I hope you don't die.
That's not true. Rainier was my first real glacial slog. But do a dog-route (either DC or Emmons) around July/early August instead when the weather is generally stable and so is the snowpack.
And have your team crevasse rescue stuff down cold. Minimum of three for your first trip.
-Fear
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cdog
Sep 9, 2005, 10:09 PM
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In reply to: Speaking of glacier travel, for someone like myself who has never been on one with the idea of eventually venturing out into areas with glaciers and cravasses and things... what would be a good starting point. |
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builttospill
Sep 10, 2005, 7:05 AM
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scottquig: are you serious? There's not exactly a plethora of glaciers in the lower 48, so where would you suggest I start? I've climbed technical ridgelines, and faces, steep snow chutes and done multi-day winter trips into the backcountry, all in Utah (Wasatch and Uinta mountains). Not sure what you'd want me to do aside from that to prep for glacier travel, other than take a course (which I'd consider). obviously winter wouldn't be the best idea, but DC or Emmons in the summer? Figure that's almost safer cause at least there are people around....as opposed to some of the trips I've done.
Anyways, thanks for the advice people. Now kobaz can feel free to hijack this thread.
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atg200
Sep 12, 2005, 11:45 PM
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i agree that rainier isn't necessarily the best first glaciated choice, but its not a really bad one either. i think a shorter route on baker, adams, hood, etc would be much less of an ordeal so you could concentrate more on the systems. having loads of people around, especially on a dog route, most definitely does not make things safer. its better to get your stuff dialed in first, and really this stuff is fairly trivial to learn if you just log some days working on it.
kobaz, the single best thing anyone can do to learn glacier travel on their own is to buy "glacier travel and crevasse rescue" by andy selters. it is a terrific book - one of the best climbing technique books i have ever seen. buy it, and practice.
re: utah snow slopes. go wherever you like that has a safe runout and is a stable slope. i can't recommend any one place because it is so conditions dependent. the best places to practice also tend to be in the 30-45 degree avy danger zone. practicing this stuff works better in spring snow than powder.
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builttospill
Sep 13, 2005, 6:01 AM
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I just checked that book out from the library today atg (can't afford to buy it yet, but whatever....too many expenses at the moment that can't be put off.....i.e. money owed the gov't).
Thanks for the advice.
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