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thrmaln
Sep 9, 2005, 4:28 AM
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Hello All,
I am a design engineer by trade and have found a way to significantly improve a particular piece of climbing equipment (not disclosed for obvious reasons). If all goes well, I would like to patent it. I have already designed the parts in Solidworks and used motion analysis to verify that it will work. I have just begun to have some prototype parts made at work and I would like to take the next step to protect myself and my idea. I have researched the patent process online and it looks as though I will need help due to its complexity. So if anyone here was in my shoes at one point, I could use some advice. I am just one person and I do not have a lot of spare cash lying around so I would like to do this with the lowest expenses possible.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated,
Marc Webster
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sardude
Sep 9, 2005, 6:06 AM
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$250-$1200 for a patent application lawyer's fee
or
The poor man's method: send a notarize detailed drawing to yourself via first-class signature required US mail and never open it until in the presence of an attorney, should the need arise.
I did plan A once but have several letters from plan B put away.
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builttospill
Sep 9, 2005, 6:50 AM
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Get a patent attorney. The cheapest one yuo can find obviously, but just look in the phone book and call around. If the first guy you call can't help, they can usually recommend someone.
I looked for one about a year for a non-climbing related thing I was working on. Never panned out, but it was easy to call people and ask.
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drector
Sep 9, 2005, 7:24 AM
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In reply to: $250-$1200 for a patent application lawyer's fee or The poor man's method: send a notarize detailed drawing to yourself via first-class signature required US mail and never open it until in the presence of an attorney, should the need arise. I did plan A once but have several letters from plan B put away.
You are absolutely correct about how to get a cheap copyright for something like a book. The law protects artistic materials like writing, pictures, and movies (or whatever else) regarless of any government filings but the same is not true for a design. If you did the "send to yourself" method, you might have a claim for prior art thus keeping someone else from getting a patent but you would not have a claim to the design. For instance, you could send the design to a gear company and they could make their own version and since you have no patent, they would not be inclined to buy it from you (since you don't have a patent, remember). They could not file their own patent because of your prior art but so what? They could still make these things all they wanted.
To the OP, get the patent. It will look good on your resume even if no one buys it or licenses it from you.
Dave
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mtnfr34k
Sep 9, 2005, 7:35 AM
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Unless you work for yourself, be careful doing any of the work for this at your office. If you do take time or use material or equipment, then your company can claim rights to your work as well.
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blondgecko
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Sep 9, 2005, 11:27 AM
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Document, document, document. Write down everything, preferably in a single notebook with sequentially numbered pages. Sign and date each page and get someone you trust to do the same. Cross out all white space so nothing can be added.
If you are challenged on priority, you need this to prove that you did it first. Without it, if it comes to that you're screwed.
Get a patent attorney to write it up. If you try to do it yourself, there is very little doubt that there will be holes that an experienced attorney could drive a truck through.
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thrmaln
Sep 9, 2005, 2:43 PM
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Hello All,
Thanks for the great advice. I plan to call the patent office today since they have an assistance program where I can get some information and get the ball rolling. I also did the Self addresses envelope for a non climbing related product (R/C Sailplane kits) I use to sell. I have already done patent searches for all related items and nobody has one for my variation yet so I just need to get the prototype finished in the next few weeks and see how it works. I have also been keeping notes in a notebook that has bound pages so if I remove one it will be noticed and none can be added. 250 to 1200 in lawyers fees is not as bad as I had thought which is a nice surprise.
Thanks again,
Marc Webster
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roc-dude
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Sep 9, 2005, 3:14 PM
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I have several patents to my name. The most famous is the technology used in the Onstar tracking system GM uses. I spend over $30k on that patent. I was the first to design, the first to market and the first to sell it in the market place. I was able to sell my company and patent to a fortune 100 Company because I had a patent, which is the good news. Bad news was most of my selling price was based on royalties from sells of the product. Word of advice; If your invention is good and has huge profitability many companies will copy your product and wait for you to sue. Patent law suites are very expensive, with a minimum $2 million per suite and typically last 4 to 8 years. It is widely known that the company with the deeper pockets will drag it out and wins in these cases. It happen to me and several other people I know who have had unique intellectual property and patented it. Second work of advice; patent it then sell it at a reasonable price or license it cheap and get something for it. If you try to sell it for to much they will just steal it from you and wait to fight it out in court. Our patent laws are not very protective and jurors are not very smart and can be swayed in any direction. Just look at the high profile cases lately. I hope I did not rain on your parade, get the patent just be mindful of the shortcomings of patents and patent laws.
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lebeau
Sep 9, 2005, 3:49 PM
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I recommend a provisional patent. You can apply for one for $80 (not including lawyer fees) With this you can say "patent pending". You can say this for a year then you have to get a full utility patent. 5,000+
If you use SolidWorks you can make some basic drawings add text and submit yourself. I've done a few of them. Or have a lawyer do it. (200-500)
Hopefully you can sell the idea or market yourself before the year is up. Then have the company pay for the full patent.
I assume you've been to this website http://www.uspto.gov/
You can download the provisional application there.
Mark
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phaedrus
Sep 9, 2005, 4:22 PM
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phaedrus moved this thread from General to Community.
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thrmaln
Sep 9, 2005, 5:17 PM
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Hello Phaedrus,
I was unsure where I should post this. I almost posted to the gearheads forum since it concerns the development of new gear. Anyway, to all who have replied; thanks for all the great ideas.
The provisional patent looks like it may be my best bet to get the ball rolling sort to speak. Unfortunately, the item is not as marketable as onstar but selling or liscensing the idea to a climbing company is where I was heading anyway. Neither Trango or Black Diamond currently sell the product I am improving so maybe it would be worth their while. Who knows, and only time will tell.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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curt
Sep 9, 2005, 5:37 PM
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I am afraid some folks here have put the cart ahead of the horse--so to speak. The first thing you need to do is contact a patent attorney to do a patent search--to see if what you have is even patentable.
Curt
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wjca
Sep 9, 2005, 5:40 PM
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My sister-in-law is a patent attorney in Atlanta. PM me if you want her name and contact info.
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lebeau
Sep 9, 2005, 5:42 PM
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True, it would be best to do a patent search first. You can do it yourself on uspto website. You don't have to do a full search before approaching companies.
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curt
Sep 9, 2005, 5:45 PM
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In reply to: True, it would be best to do a patent search first. You can do it yourself on uspto website. You don't have to do a full search before approaching companies.
I suppose you could do minor surgery on youself too--but I wouldn't recommend it.
Curt
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sevrdhed
Sep 9, 2005, 6:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: True, it would be best to do a patent search first. You can do it yourself on uspto website. You don't have to do a full search before approaching companies. I suppose you could do minor surgery on youself too--but I wouldn't recommend it. Curt
Sissy.
Steve
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thrmaln
Sep 9, 2005, 6:11 PM
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Hello Curt,
I have been spending some time doing a patent search in the evenings at home. I have found a few (I think 3) of the same product just not made in the same way as mine. Mine is very different than any I have seen so far (maybe for a reason, hope not). I have searched under every possible name that could be used for this item and still only come up with 3. Worse thing that could happen is I am unable to patent it for some reason but I would still be able to use my protoype for myself. Once I finalize the design in the next week or so, I will start to have parts made at work and move towards contacting a patent attorney and see what happens from there. Right now, it at least gives me something to keep my brain occupied rather then just watching TV in the evenings.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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wjca
Sep 9, 2005, 6:21 PM
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When you decide to name it and market it, give madrock a PM, I'm sure he has all sorts of good ideas and advice for you.
(I see that horse and know that its dead, but I can't resist kicking it one more time).
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