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Would this hold a fall?
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wonderwoman


Sep 20, 2005, 12:47 PM
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Would this hold a fall?
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I found this placement pic on on http://www.neclimbs.com and cracked up!

http://www.neclimbs.com/coverShots/20050914.jpg

These piton scars are common place on Whitehorse Ledge and perfect for tricams and some nuts. However, I never thought of shoving as many nuts as possible into one!

Would this work? If so, it's pretty clever!


cfnubbler


Sep 20, 2005, 12:54 PM
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Piton scar? I think not. Looks more like a solution pocket to me, and yep, there's lots of them on Whitehorse. And I can say with complete certainty that it might hold a fall.

-Nubbler


grk10vq


Sep 20, 2005, 12:56 PM
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I wouldn't hang my hat off that.


wonderwoman


Sep 20, 2005, 12:58 PM
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And I can say with complete certainty that it might hold a fall.

:lol:

If I could give you a trophy today, I would!


Partner climbinginchico


Sep 20, 2005, 1:02 PM
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Looks like it might be too small for a pinky... If that were my only option... I would make the placement. And hope to hell I don't have to test it and my second can climb up to me and go, "what the hell was that placement? A joke?"


edge


Sep 20, 2005, 1:06 PM
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I have used several variations of that on the solution pockets on Whitehorse, and like any trad placement, experience will not only make it as good as it possibly can be, but will let you assess it's worth.

As always, sometimes that is all you get and you take it just in case it will hold, even if it looks sketchy to you. You can always throw on a screamer, and falls on the steep slabs are often greatly reduced impact, directly in accordance with how much skin you sacrifice in the slowing down process.

Those pockets are weird shape inside, and if you can get a big stopper in sideways and turn it like a key, then lock it in place with a stackable partner, as shown here, then those can be quite good; I have even belayed off of them. Before tricams I did this alot, and still do as I do not love tricams and only carry the red and pink on Whitehorse or at the Gunks.

I find small hexes work better for the load bearing half of the placement.


crimpandgo


Sep 20, 2005, 1:16 PM
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I have used several variations of that on the solution pockets on Whitehorse, and like any trad placement, experience will not only make it as good as it possibly can be, but will let you assess it's worth.

As always, sometimes that is all you get and you take it just in case it will hold, even if it looks sketchy to you. You can always throw on a screamer, and falls on the steep slabs are often greatly reduced impact, directly in accordance with how much skin you sacrifice in the slowing down process.

Those pockets are weird shape inside, and if you can get a big stopper in sideways and turn it like a key, then lock it in place with a stackable partner, as shown here, then those can be quite good; I have even belayed off of them. Before tricams I did this alot, and still do as I do not love tricams and only carry the red and pink on Whitehorse or at the Gunks.

I find small hexes work better for the load bearing half of the placement.

I can certainly understand your discussion here. but in the picture, the two nuts look too small for the hole. It looks like if you pulled outward that they would coming flying out and bop you right on the noggin. So, is this particular example questionable? Or does it look sound. If so, what is keeping the nut in place?


keinangst


Sep 20, 2005, 1:30 PM
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These look like passive nuts placed actively--they might hold downward force, but pull out on them and you'll be standing there with your nuts in your hand as you tumble away :shock:


edge


Sep 20, 2005, 1:32 PM
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I can certainly understand your discussion here. but in the picture, the two nuts look too small for the hole. It looks like if you pulled outward that they would coming flying out and bop you right on the noggin. So, is this particular example questionable? Or does it look sound. If so, what is keeping the nut in place?

This particular one looks a little sketchy to me.

Keep in mind that I am very familiar with the solution pockets on Whitehorse, and as a general rule they balloon out on the inside. If it were me, I would place the largest nut possible in the hole horizontally, and then crank it vertical. Often times, with a small hex, a sharp tug sets it and that is enough, even to the point of needing a cleaning tool to remove it.

If it is still a little wobbly but in no danger of failing as long as it remains vertically oriented, then fiddling in a second keeper nut can work wonders. I agree that these two do not look placed as well as they could be, but it is hard to distinguish the intricacies of this particular pocket from the pic.

Finally, I would not want to clip both at the same length, as the left hand nut appears to just want to lock in the right hand one. I would tie the left hand on a short keeper sling and connect the right hand one to the main draw, using a longish sling to minimize movement on the pair.


edge


Sep 20, 2005, 1:35 PM
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These look like passive nuts placed actively-

In some cases they are, but often the taper of the hex or stopper seats beautifully.

Plus, as I mentioned above, these pockets are often the only gear in 50+ feet. What does it hurt to try, even if that particular pocket is not perfect, assuming you can fire it in fast enough?


blueeyedclimber


Sep 20, 2005, 1:40 PM
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It's hard to tell how big the blue nut is, but stacked together they are possibly bigger than the pocket they are in. Looks bomber to me (well, maybe not bomber, but better than running it out another 40 feet).

Generally those pockets are bigger inside than their opening is. If you can get them in, stack them and set them at the opening, it could be pretty bomber.

Josh


edge


Sep 20, 2005, 1:42 PM
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For those who don't know Whitehorse, these pics may give you an idea about the angle in question. The first is of a climb called Sea of Holes because of the, oh well, you figure it out. Photos borrowed from the RD.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=55738
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=59983


blueeyedclimber


Sep 20, 2005, 1:44 PM
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Often times, with a small hex, a sharp tug sets it and that is enough, even to the point of needing a cleaning tool to remove it.

We have a small hex, and the only place I have used it is in one of these pockets on pitch 3 of standard route on Whitehorse. Personally, i think it is useless except for those pockets.

Josh


edge


Sep 20, 2005, 1:52 PM
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In reply to:
Often times, with a small hex, a sharp tug sets it and that is enough, even to the point of needing a cleaning tool to remove it.

We have a small hex, and the only place I have used it is in one of these pockets on pitch 3 of standard route on Whitehorse. Personally, i think it is useless except for those pockets.

Josh

I carry a #1 and a #2 wired, and I bet I place them on 90% of my pitches in the White Mountains.


skateman


Sep 20, 2005, 2:04 PM
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My old eyes aren't the best. However, I'm surprised that held up the biner! If it's all you have for awhile....oh crap!


graniteboy


Sep 20, 2005, 3:50 PM
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Whitehorse, Hmmm?
Looks to me like, with the angle you show in your pictures, the main purpose for pro anywhere on that rock would be to place speed limit signs for the skateboarders and mountainbikers who would inevitably zoom up and down the slab.....so they wouldn't hit the trophy moms out jogging up and down the thing with their strollers. :lol:

But to answer the question.....I suppose it Would hold a fall then....it's hard to generate that much force falling down on near level ground...


lewisiarediviva


Sep 20, 2005, 4:14 PM
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I'm not where I can play with those nuts, but they look to small anyway.


mcfoley


Sep 20, 2005, 4:29 PM
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looks like shite to me...


healyje


Sep 20, 2005, 4:49 PM
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White Horse is fabulous and those slabs make you want to take advantage of every nook and cranny possible - way up there on the pucker factor, especially when it starts to rain...

I'd stack back to back pinky tricams in there but it looks to small so I'd probably be reaching for my HB's and doing something about like this photo trying to get some bit of the pieces sticking out past and locking on to the edge then deciding whether to clip a screamer to just the top, just the bottom, or both pieces...

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/.../500/6299WH_Hole.JPG


the_dude


Sep 21, 2005, 8:53 PM
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In reply to:
I can certainly understand your discussion here. but in the picture, the two nuts look too small for the hole. It looks like if you pulled outward that they would coming flying out and bop you right on the noggin. So, is this particular example questionable? Or does it look sound. If so, what is keeping the nut in place?
Am I the only immature one here that finds this funny?


the_dude


Sep 21, 2005, 8:55 PM
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These look like passive nuts placed actively--they might hold downward force, but pull out on them and you'll be standing there with your nuts in your hand as you tumble away :shock:
Hu huhu


the_dude


Sep 21, 2005, 8:56 PM
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It's hard to tell how big the blue nut is, but stacked together they are possibly bigger than the pocket they are in.
Alright, I'll stop now


lambone


Sep 21, 2005, 11:01 PM
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Piton scar? I think not. Looks more like a solution pocket to me, and yep, there's lots of them on Whitehorse. -Nubbler

ummm....

What exactly is a "Solution Pocket?"

Sounds manufactured to me...????


renohandjams


Sep 21, 2005, 11:15 PM
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Am I the only immature one here that finds this funny?
I thought it was funny.


the_dude


Sep 21, 2005, 11:34 PM
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Thank you RHJ!

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