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deschamps1000
Sep 21, 2005, 1:54 PM
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Here's a question that my partner and I debated last weekend...
I always carry one extra long sling with me climbing. Sometimes I use it to clean routes. I will take the middle of the extra long sling and girth hitch that to my belay loop, leaving me with 2 free ends to clip to the bolts.
Let's say that one of the free ends was cut. Would the sling slip through the knot? Or would tension on the end that is still clipped be enough to cinch up the girth hitch and not allow the sling to pull through?
For example, in the picture below. If the bottom right thread was cut, would tension on the bottom left thread pull the cord through?
http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/...es/girth%20hitch.jpg
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azrockclimber
Sep 21, 2005, 2:21 PM
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clove it.
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kimmyt
Sep 21, 2005, 2:33 PM
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Hm. Clove hitching would then involve keeping a biner on your belay loop to clove the slings to, which is rather silly for a short sport route.
I've done what the OP mentioned before, but stopped due to lack of redundancy. Usually if I'm going to be cleaning a lot of pitches like that, I'll take two 2 footers and girth hitch them together through my belay loop, then i still have 2 tails like you mentioned, but each one is independant of the other so that if one gets cut the other is still (hopefully) intact. Then I'll just keep a biner on each tail, and clip each tail to one gear loop on either side of my harness. Its a bit bulky, but if I'm doing a lot of sport routes or a lot of pitches on a sport route it ends up saving time in the end. Plus its super easy to just clip myself into the anchors if I'm sketching.
K.
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overlord
Sep 21, 2005, 2:43 PM
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it would slip.
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bill413
Sep 21, 2005, 2:44 PM
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Well...it depends (TM)
The picture you posted doesn't quite match the image I formed from your description.
In the picture, cutting the portion of the sling that runs out of the picture should have no direct impact on the knot. However, should the know start to slip at all (due to tension on the other strand), how long the remaing "tail" is would probably have an impact, longer being better.
Whether or not it would slip...well, clearly that depends on the slipperyness of the material, the slipperyness of the surface it's tied around, how easily it deforms, the impact force experienced, etc.
I think I would be afraid to trust a girth hitch made from the 8mm dyneema on a biner, with only one strand loaded. Of course, a stopper knot in the unloaded strand would probably make it secure.
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misanthropic_nihilist
Sep 21, 2005, 2:56 PM
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It looks like a clove hitch with the two free bights would be safest, although it would add a lot of bulk at your harness' tie in point.
I'd recommend testing out your set up: seeing what will happen if one bight breaks/unclips. Try it with as many different materials as possible. As others mentioned, the girth hitch's remaining strength after cutting one end is highly dependent on the friction between materials. If it's solid with spectra/dyneema, I'd use it.
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j_ung
Sep 21, 2005, 3:12 PM
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Not sure what, on a sport climb would cause your sling to cut, but if it did... well, that Spectra is mighty slippery. Do you ever load one side, but not the other? That might cause the same problem.
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caughtinside
Sep 21, 2005, 3:14 PM
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Yeah, if you cut one end and weighted the other, it would likely pull through.
A couple questions though. Are you worried about it getting cut while you are clipped to two anchor bolts?
Also, is this for cleaning sport routes? I don't use any runners, daisies, or anything like that for cleaning sport routes. I just take 2 extra draws. clip them to the belay loop, opposite and opposed of course. clip those draws to the anchor draws. Then clean as normal.
The added benefit to this system is that you have extra draws while you are climbing the route. Which is nice so that you can even them out on each side of your harness, and hopefully avoid running out on the side you want to pull and hang them from.
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berkly
Sep 21, 2005, 3:20 PM
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In reply to: Hm. Clove hitching would then involve keeping a biner on your belay loop to clove the slings to, which is rather silly for a short sport route. K.
Actually you can thread a clove hitch either around you belay loop or tie in points and not have to use any extra biners. Its difficult to explain, but if you examine the way a clove hitch works its not too hard to figure out.
But I like to use the extra quickdraws technique.
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deschamps1000
Sep 21, 2005, 3:35 PM
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Thanks for everyone's responses. To answer a few points brought up...
I don't use a biner. The picture is misleading. I actually girth hitch around my belay loop.
This is for cleaning 1 pitch sport/trad routes. I am not only afraid of 1 end being cut, but also of a bolt pulling / biner breaking/ sling snapping / etc. The usual reasons you want 2 solid points of contact.
I know it could be easier with 2 seperate slings or other techniques, but I just always carry a double sling around my shoulder, and thus might as well use it.
I think the best thing I've heard is to clove hitch instead, directly around my belay loop.
But, someone out there must know if the girth hitch would hold.
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caughtinside
Sep 21, 2005, 3:46 PM
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In reply to: But, someone out there must know if the girth hitch would hold.
Dude, does it matter? It might hold. If it's cranked down and weighted hard. But it's not worth trusting.
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misanthropic_nihilist
Sep 21, 2005, 3:58 PM
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In reply to: I think the best thing I've heard is to clove hitch instead, directly around my belay loop.
I don't think you want to clove hitch directly to your belay loop. I'd either go through the leg and waist tie-in points with the webbing or clove a carabiner that's clipped into the belay loop.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 21, 2005, 3:59 PM
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In reply to: This is for cleaning 1 pitch sport/trad routes. I am not only afraid of 1 end being cut, but also of a bolt pulling / biner breaking/ sling snapping / etc. The usual reasons you want 2 solid points of contact. But, someone out there must know if the girth hitch would hold.
Biners and slings don't just snap under body weight. And a good bolt placed in solid rock does not pull out. If this worries you, why not just use two points of protection, either two slings or two extra draws, as someone else mentioned.
Josh
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rocloco
Sep 21, 2005, 4:12 PM
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I'm not sure I understand why you need a leash to clean a sport route?? Or any route for that matter.
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reg
Sep 21, 2005, 4:23 PM
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berkly: got a picture of that? i'd can't imagine how it's done.
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reg
Sep 21, 2005, 4:27 PM
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berkly: are you using a sling and holding it as if it were a single strand of rope? so you would tie the clove around your belay loop/harness as a mariner would do around a piling. right?
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cintune
Sep 21, 2005, 4:31 PM
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Just tie the sling like it was a clove on a bight and pull the working end out to equalize the lengths and ensure that it'll cinch up under any load.
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berkly
Sep 21, 2005, 4:55 PM
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In reply to: berkly: are you using a sling and holding it as if it were a single strand of rope? so you would tie the clove around your belay loop/harness as a mariner would do around a piling. right?
Sorry no picture, but yea hold it as one strand. Take a little less than half the sling and loop over and under coming out on the right of the original strand. Loop back over again on the left side of the original. Keeping a bit of slack in the loop you just made, thread the rest through that loop. Sorry if thats a little confusing. If you really want a picture let me know and Ill see if I can take some pics tonight.
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vawwyakr
Sep 22, 2005, 2:05 AM
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I'm having trouble imaging how this works...how do you take one sling girth hitched to your belay look and end up with two tails? Wouldn't you just end up with a single loop? I mean this is what I do all the time and I just end up with one loop :-)
For me I just clip two biners onto the loop and put one on each bolt (assuming you're cleaning at the top of the climb to rap down). Yeah if the sling were to snap some how I'd be toast but I've got enough faith to believe my sling can hold body weight for a few seconds while I run the rope through the top anchor.
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jschwartzel
Sep 22, 2005, 2:14 AM
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The Girth Hitch will slip if using the material you pictured. Here is a simple solution. Attach your Girth Hitch to your harness, then do a overhand knot or figure 8 near the hitch. This way the overhand knot is the primary with the Girth hitch as a back up. If something really bad happens that causes a overhand or figure 8 to come undone on your runner-- then you probably have bigger issues
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seraphless
Sep 22, 2005, 3:27 AM
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Would you bet your life on it? I sure as hell wouldn't. Only by Gods grace would that not slip right through.
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ctardi
Sep 23, 2005, 2:02 AM
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Try it, set up like you would, but somewhere safe, on rope. Clip only one end, and hang. That should show you what will happen if the other side isn't attached to anything, or is cut.
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