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phile
Sep 28, 2005, 9:18 PM
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Hi people,
I'm hoping to get some information about commonly accepted etiquette for passing and/or climbing behind other parties. Feel free to moderate this into beginners if it's a better fit there.
How closely can the 2nd party follow? If there is room for a 2nd anchor at the next belay, is it rude for the 2nd leader to start climbing shortly after the 1st follower has started?
If party above is willing to let the party below pass, what conditions are necessary for this to happen safely? Do passes normally only happen at belays? Can anyone walk me through a hypothetical example of an efficient pass involving 2 willing parties?
Thanks a ton for any input.
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jv
Sep 28, 2005, 11:38 PM
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It depends. Back in my day, if a party caught you, you allowed them to pass when you and your partner were both at the same belay. The terrain had a lot to do with it because it may be extremely inconvenient to allow a party to pass at, for example, a hanging belay. Ideally, the faster climber blows by and sets up a belay well above yours, and brings the second up asap. But they'd better be fast enough to stay well ahead of you.
Sometimes you have to share a belay. The party at the belay has veto power. I would not climb up to a cramped belay ledge with only one anchor without permission first. If they say no, you'll just have to wait. If there's plenty of room, especially if you can set up a completely separate anchor, I probably would not ask to come up. But I still would not presume to try to pass them without permission.
On the other hand, I always considered it bad form not to let an obviously faster party pass. But you might want to exercise veto power, for example, if you got up really early to be the first party on a route known for its loose rock. You got there first because you did not want to climb underneath another party.
Nowadays, I don't know. I had an unpleasant experience at Red Rocks a few years ago. The party ahead of us was moving slowly and we were moving fast. We waited for them to finish the third pitch and get on a huge ledge. There they untied from the rope.
One of them had already told me I could pass. But the other guy had a hissy fit when I started the next pitch. Because we were climbing much faster than they were, and his partner gave me the OK, and he was walking around unroped, I passed them anyway. I don't know how common it is for climbers to arbitrarily refuse to let you pass, but my suspicion is that it happens more now than back in the day.
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phile
Sep 29, 2005, 3:44 AM
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thanks jv. that all makes sense to me. I'm a little unsure of the rules out there, so it's great to get someone else's perspective.
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tradrenn
Oct 20, 2005, 12:48 AM
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Just last Monday my partner wanted to do Jackie for a warm up and Classic ( both routes are at Gunks ) When she was leading Jackie other people ( from NJ ) started to climb Classic. We met with them at the bolted belay of first pitch and after short explanation they were so nice and let us rapell and lead Classic just cause we were in the rush to make it home before 8 pm. So Kelly happily got to lead Jackie and Classic and we left at noon and those nice people stayed there to do Classic after we left. If you ask nicely and it is save, other climbers are usually pretty cool and will let you do what you want.
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jakedatc
Oct 20, 2005, 1:42 AM
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In reply to: How closely can the 2nd party follow? If there is room for a 2nd anchor at the next belay, is it rude for the 2nd leader to start climbing shortly after the 1st follower has started?
again it depends on the route etc but either wait until they get to the next belay or even better wait for the leader to take off so that hopefully by the time you get up there the 2nd is getting close to take off.
i'd find it really rude for someone to climb the same pitch at the same time. especially since communication between you and your belayer would get allll effed up. so.. definitely dont follow someone on the same pitch
i agree with most of what JV said on the other parts. basically think of what you'd think of someone showing up at the belay you're looking at if you were the one up there.
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blueeyedclimber
Oct 21, 2005, 2:03 PM
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I think the biggest key is to have good communication between the parties. Different people may have differing views about what the etiquette is, but most will always be receptive to you if you speak up in a positive way. If you feel another party is doing something unsafe, always speak up.
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sspssp
Oct 21, 2005, 10:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: How closely can the 2nd party follow? If there is room for a 2nd anchor at the next belay, is it rude for the 2nd leader to start climbing shortly after the 1st follower has started? again it depends on the route etc but either wait until they get to the next belay or even better wait for the leader to take off so that hopefully by the time you get up there the 2nd is getting close to take off. i'd find it really rude for someone to climb the same pitch at the same time. especially since communication between you and your belayer would get allll effed up. so.. definitely dont follow someone on the same pitch i agree with most of what JV said on the other parts. basically think of what you'd think of someone showing up at the belay you're looking at if you were the one up there.
As people have already posted, yea, it all depends. If you are planning/hopeing to pass, then yes you need to follow closely so you are "there" and ready to go when the opportunity comes up. If you aren't going to try/ask to pass, then there really isn't much reason to be right on somebodys heel. You are going to have to wait for them. However, if it is clear that the second is going to climb the pitch faster than I can lead, I might only wait ten feet or so before starting up. It would also depend on what the next belay was like (comfy ledge, hanging...).
When you first catch up to another party, the most important thing is to give a friendly greeting and start up a casual conversation. If you want to pass them, this is a good foundation for trying. Even if you don't want to pass, it usually makes it less awkward if you unexpectantly catch up to them at a semi-akward belay. You might be able to squeeze in a bit instead of having to hang on your gear waiting. Finally, meeting/talking to other parties on the side of a cliff can be one of the really cool things about climbing multi-pitch.
A final thought, if the there is an easier section of the route, I will try to pass at that point by simul-climbing with my partner. This will often let me get by another party only dealing them literally a couple of minutes.
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