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basilisk
Oct 1, 2005, 5:14 PM
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one of my professors was telling me about how many walls in europe don't allow climbers to use mechanical pro, so climbers have developed ways to make pro out of ropes and knots. does anyone know of any examples of these, and especially how to make them? he called them "soft knots" but i can't find anything on them when i run searches
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vegastradguy
Oct 1, 2005, 5:21 PM
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take a sling. tie an overhand on one side of it. different sizes of webbing yields different sizes of knots.
we use 'em once in a while... (well, my partner mostly). i dont really think they're the best option, but a solid knot in a sling set in the right spot will work well enough.
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superbum
Oct 1, 2005, 5:24 PM
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Old school! Me and a buddy always joke about doing an all knot ascent of some climb at the campfire, but go straight for our racks in the morning. An interesting and "historical" way to climb, it has a place. I personally would like to sack up and do it once or twice, but certainly "knot" climbing at my limit! HAHAHA.
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iceisnice
Oct 1, 2005, 5:27 PM
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can you remember the areas that your friend was talking about? i remember reading an article about Henry Barber and how he loved climbing at a place in Europe that only allow that kind of pro (they climb barefoot there too). Alpine climbs in the Alps use to use knotted ropes as their main source of protection in the late 1800's. Try researching that time period for more info.
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superbum
Oct 1, 2005, 5:33 PM
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The area in the Henry Barbur article was called Dresden, Germany
http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/listArea.php?AreaID=1011
The ethics are explained pretty well here...
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vegastradguy
Oct 1, 2005, 5:41 PM
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In reply to: I think the area in the Henry Barbur article was called Dresden, Germany???
yup, Dresden is one of those areas that the rock is soft enough to require knots only.
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cgailey
Oct 1, 2005, 7:20 PM
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I've rapped off of jammed knots..worked just fine. You just have to know where to put em
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neurostar
Oct 2, 2005, 8:12 PM
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There was an article in Rock & Ice a couple months ago that talked about doing that in E. Europe..
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saxonyclimber
Oct 2, 2005, 8:39 PM
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We did this in Saxony, Germany when I started climbing in the 6o's. If you use a pick to stuff a knot deep into a wormhole, you have a really solid piece!
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majid_sabet
Oct 2, 2005, 11:07 PM
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Professors was high when he told you that, I climbed in Europe and you can place any thing you want, however placing knots made from rope and webbing is dangerous, I would recommend it as last resource for plan B or when you accidentally dropped every thing and it is time to bail out. Several climbers have died due to placing big fat knots instead of pro. One climber died 2 years Jogging (using jumar climbing up) on the rope. He was repelling on 2 ropes, when he pulled his rope to decedent to next anchor station, his rope got stuck and he climbed up the rope to free it, rope got freed half way causing him to fall 300 meter to his death. One El Cap climber used a webbing and placed a fat knot on a fix bolt (Did not want to leave a biner on the bolt) and told the belayer to lower him, 15 feet below the bolt, knot popped and caused him to go for a 75 feet ride, banged his head on a ledge, lucky he did not die. I could go on and on with cases but just remember that your life is on it.
Majid
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cosmiccragsman
Oct 2, 2005, 11:45 PM
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Majid;
You should be aware of the facts before you spew. There ARE places in Europe where you can only use knots for pro. Also back in the 60s,
when I learned how to climb. I used to use knots, machined nuts slung with webbing, 2x4s Whatever I could protect myself with. Knots work really good in some situations. There are good and bad placements, for knots, as there are with modern protection.
My advice to Basilisk is, to go out and learn anything he can about climbing,
and old school ways of doing things, to add to his bag of tricks. (you never know when you might need a dulfersitz, or need to body belay, or use biners as a rappelling device to name a few.
Cosmiccragsman
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 2, 2005, 11:49 PM
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In reply to: Professors was high when he told you that, I climbed in Europe and you can place any thing you want, however placing knots made from rope and webbing is dangerous, I would recommend it as last resource for plan B or when you accidentally dropped every thing and it is time to bail out. Several climbers have died due to placing big fat knots instead of pro. One climber died 2 years Jogging (using jumar climbing up) on the rope. He was repelling on 2 ropes, when he pulled his rope to decedent to next anchor station, his rope got stuck and he climbed up the rope to free it, rope got freed half way causing him to fall 300 meter to his death. One El Cap climber used a webbing and placed a fat knot on a fix bolt (Did not want to leave a biner on the bolt) and told the belayer to lower him, 15 feet below the bolt, knot popped and caused him to go for a 75 feet ride, banged his head on a ledge, lucky he did not die. I could go on and on with cases but just remember that your life is on it. Majid
Did you forget to take your meds today? (jk)
Any other way I look at it. That is an idiotic post.
ps. to elsewhere
Pim sure likes to whine.
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cosmiccragsman
Oct 2, 2005, 11:57 PM
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Hey Alpnclmbr1; Does that mean that the poster is an idiot?
Have you read any of Majids post's? He must not take his meds at all.
Or else, he needs a stronger prescription.
cosmiccragsman
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