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clmbnski


Oct 4, 2005, 5:17 PM
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maman
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clmbnski wrote:

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Soloing is also the ultimate acceptance of responsibility. Acknoledging that a fall will kill you and still continuing, represents a real dedication to your reasons for climbing.


I'm very curious about your reasons for climbing. Putting your life at risk and feeling like a warrior are two reasons we can ascertain from your post.

First of all, I never said I was some sort of frequent soloist or anything. Yes I have soloed a little bit but that was not the reason for originally starting the thread. It was to see if there are things to learn from people who have done a lot of soloing. Now the thread is mostly about whether it is good or bad, that is ok although not surprising. I am enjoying the discussion though.

In reply to:
Putting your life at risk and feeling like a warrior are two reasons we can ascertain from your post.

No my reasons for climbing do not include putting my life at risk. Perhaps risk in general though, but risk that I find useful. Also, there are many types of risk. Risk is also a result of my reasons for climbing, because climbing involves risk.

"feeling like a warrior" is also not a reason for climbing, I dont want to feel like anyone.

In reply to:
Do you honestly acknowledge that you could lose your life?

Yes, I assume you mean while soloing? is what you are refering to? because you can lose your life in a lot of other ways too.


alpinerock


Oct 5, 2005, 9:57 AM
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I am not sure what your point is about Rubies cafe. That is a 5.12 or 5.13 in Utah isn't it? I hardly think that is considered a climb a noob would think about starting out on.

I agree that a noob wouldn't consider starting out on a climb like that, its just that your defination of difficulty: how hard the protection is, amused me, Rubies Cafe is a 5.13- finger crack in Indian Creek and has been accused of being "A sport climb on gear" because of the ease and security of placements.

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My point was placement quality does not always factor into the climb rating. Noobs should considered the quality of the placements as well as the ease of climbing moves.
I once again concur, with the advent of the climbing gyms, more and more people seem to be coming right out that relativly safe enviroment, convinced that they have the skills nessacary to lead safely outside, whether it be sport or trad. In doing this they skip the mandatory(IMHO) period of semi-apprenticship in which one follows a more experiances leader until the leader deems the apprentice ready to lead.

In reply to:
As for your analysis of rockkid's intentions. You are probably correct. But , I just have a sneaky suspicion the mind set "This is so easy I won't fall" is too prevalent. As the climbing population grows you read more articles about people getting injured in situations that clearly indicate a little knowledge and education and a little common sense would have prevented.

Just my take.
This mind-set may or may not be more prevelent nowdays, but could not at least part of the reason you are reading more and more articles about people getting injured is merely an attribute of climbing gaining popularity and acceptance by mainstream society? just my .02$


athabasca


Oct 5, 2005, 4:43 PM
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I have been climbing for ten years now and I just started soloing this year I started at 5.6 and this past weekend I did a 5.9 as well as a 5.10 the 9 was about 35m and the 10 was 20 m it was a great time I found that I focused more on what I was doing .Not saying that I will make it an every day thing to solo but I will do it now and then just remember soloing is just a little longer then the normal bouldering route. Soloing will help your climbing out a great deal the same to be sead about climbing in boots ie hiking and or mountaineering you have to be more aware of were your feet and hands are beening placed. After doing this type of training you will find that your climbing at harder levels ie if you solo at a 5.6 then sport and even trad levels at the 20 or 11 will be a little easy er so to to speak.Just remember when soloing know your limits and always listen to your gut but when on the sport route push your self past the comfort level.
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I can jug anything you can climb...crimp or die


rufusandcompany


Oct 5, 2005, 6:02 PM
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I have been climbing for ten years now and I just started soloing this year I started at 5.6 and this past weekend I did a 5.9 as well as a 5.10 the 9 was about 35m and the 10 was 20 m it was a great time I found that I focused more on what I was doing .Not saying that I will make it an every day thing to solo but I will do it now and then just remember soloing is just a little longer then the normal bouldering route. Soloing will help your climbing out a great deal the same to be sead about climbing in boots ie hiking and or mountaineering you have to be more aware of were your feet and hands are beening placed. After doing this type of training you will find that your climbing at harder levels ie if you solo at a 5.6 then sport and even trad levels at the 20 or 11 will be a little easy er so to to speak.Just remember when soloing know your limits and always listen to your gut but when on the sport route push your self past the comfort level.

Classic - a noob telling noobs how great climbing unroped will be in helping to raise their skills and confidence. I was just telling a friend how much money he could save by doing his kid's dental work, himself.

I believe it's time to flush.


arnoilgner


Oct 9, 2005, 8:14 PM
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Keep in mind, folks, that we are all posting our opinions and as such, they are opinions--they are ALL somewhat wrong. I'm not right and you are not right. So don't jump to conclusions about what someone is saying. He/she is saying it based on his/her understanding and you are understanding it from your perspective. The purpose of this forum is to modify OUR opinion by the bountiful postings of our fellow climbers, not to be driven even deeper into our "somewhat wrong" opinions. No one is right. We are all somewhat wrong so look at why you are so attached to your perspective.

So, in my post and in what I teach in the Warrior's Way mental fitness classes I do not promote an ego orientation as motivating us. So, you must have misunderstood my post. Look deeper and you might find less ego and more focus and valuing learning.

And by the way, someone keeps saying something about "being a warrior" and equating it to being egotistical. There is no association except in your decision to make that association. If you read my book you will find no such association.

Let's keep it friendly folks...arno


shanz


Oct 9, 2005, 8:24 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I have been climbing for ten years now and I just started soloing this year I started at 5.6 and this past weekend I did a 5.9 as well as a 5.10 the 9 was about 35m and the 10 was 20 m it was a great time I found that I focused more on what I was doing .Not saying that I will make it an every day thing to solo but I will do it now and then just remember soloing is just a little longer then the normal bouldering route. Soloing will help your climbing out a great deal the same to be sead about climbing in boots ie hiking and or mountaineering you have to be more aware of were your feet and hands are beening placed. After doing this type of training you will find that your climbing at harder levels ie if you solo at a 5.6 then sport and even trad levels at the 20 or 11 will be a little easy er so to to speak.Just remember when soloing know your limits and always listen to your gut but when on the sport route push your self past the comfort level.

Classic - a noob telling noobs how great climbing unroped will be in helping to raise their skills and confidence. I was just telling a friend how much money he could save by doing his kid's dental work, himself.

I believe it's time to flush.

im trying to figure out why he is a noob- is this because he doesnt have but 3 posts? Actually maybe the reason he doesnt post is because hes out climbing instead of talking crap on some website!


rufusandcompany


Oct 9, 2005, 9:35 PM
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im trying to figure out why he is a noob- is this because he doesnt have but 3 posts? Actually maybe the reason he doesn't post is because hes out climbing instead of talking crap on some website!

Your question seemed reasonable until the accompanying statement. Are you really interested in why I think he is a noob, or are you just looking for an excuse to be a smart ass?

I'll answer your question anyway, with the hope that some impressionable prospect might get the message. It's very simple, and this "crap talker" actually speaks from experience: Telling a neophyte how good soloing will be at improving his or her skills is not something that any real soloist would ever do. Anyone - myself included - who has spent any length of time unroped, knows how plain irresponsible even the idea of it is. Soloing is a zero-tolerance game, and the desire to do it has to come from within one's self.

This is an internationally viewed site, and climbers of all ages and abilities visit it. What some of us have the experience to take with a grain of salt is sometimes taken literally by less experience and/or younger climbers. This guy admitted to being new at the game, and he broke the cardinal rule of soloing: Don't ever suggest it to others.

Before you tell me that people are too smart to be influenced by such statements, stop and think about it. Lesser experienced and younger people are often influenced by the admonishments of people with certain experiences under their belts. Advertisers know this and frequently use it to sell their wares.

Look, I could be politically correct and spray fluffy rhetoric at you, but excuse me if I don't. Frankly, I would rather make the cold reality of soloing clear to anyone who is considering it. Do not even consider it unless you absolutely know you and your skills are are more than evenly matched to the challenge!!! Anything less is very likely to end you up in a body bag. Moreover, you had better be willing to ask yourself if you are willing to risk the reality of dying for the experience. Death will be the result of a mistake at any substantial height. I have been hundreds of feet above the deck many times, without a rope, and I can assure you that there is no room to even consider backing out at that point. Even sneezing can be lethal in that situation. Shit happens. Birds will swerve into your path; rocks will fall; winds will try to unnerve you - all while you work to manage the the task of staying on the wall.

If there is any thread in which neophytes should abstain from offering advice, it is on a thread about soloing, for all of the aforementioned reasons.

As for you, Shanz, you would be wise to get your information straight before you shoot your mouth off.

KC


rufusandcompany


Oct 9, 2005, 9:39 PM
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im trying to figure out why he is a noob- is this because he doesnt have but 3 posts? Actually maybe the reason he doesn't post is because hes out climbing instead of talking crap on some website!

Your question seemed reasonable until the accompanying statement. Are you really interested in why I think he is a noob, or are you just looking for an excuse to be a smart ass?

I'll answer your question anyway, with the hope that some impressionable prospect might get the message. It's very simple, and this "crap talker" actually speaks from experience: Telling a neophyte how good soloing will be at improving his or her skills is not something that any real soloist would ever do. Anyone - myself included - who has spent any length of time unroped, knows how plain irresponsible even the idea of it is. Soloing is a zero-tolerance game, and the desire to do it has to come from within one's self.

This is an internationally viewed site, and climbers of all ages and abilities visit it. What some of us have the experience to take with a grain of salt is sometimes taken literally by less experience and/or younger climbers. This guy admitted to being new at the game, and he broke the cardinal rule of soloing: Don't ever suggest it to others.

Before you tell me that people are too smart to be influenced by such statements, stop and think about it. Lesser experienced and younger people are often influenced by the admonishments of people with certain experiences under their belts. Advertisers know this and frequently use it to sell their wares.

Look, I could be politically correct and spray fluffy rhetoric at you, but excuse me if I don't. Frankly, I would rather make the cold reality of soloing clear to anyone who is considering it. Do not even consider it unless you absolutely know you and your skills are are more than evenly matched to the challenge!!! Anything less is very likely to end you up in a body bag. I have been hundreds of feet above the deck many times, without a rope, and I can assure you that there is no room to even consider backing out at that point. Even sneezing can be lethal in that situation. Shit happens. Birds will swerve into your path; rocks will fall; winds will try to unnerve you - all while you work to manage the the task of staying on the wall.

If there is any thread in which neophytes should abstain from offering advice, it is on a thread about soloing, for all of the aforementioned reasons.

As for you, Shanz, you would be wise to get your information straight before you shoot your mouth off.

KC


maman


Oct 9, 2005, 10:27 PM
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Soloers are dumb AND egotistical. The above post proves it.


maman


Oct 9, 2005, 10:54 PM
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DMT

Do you always have to spoil a good ranting cacaphony of idiots with your clear-headedness and reason?

You're mostly right about your response to me, but I would suggest that there are better ways to find out what you're made of than soloing.

I guess I'm just bothered by this "warrior" business. A warrior is described in websters' as a fighting man. I guess someone soloing could be thought of as a fighting man, but that makes it seem silly to me. Sure, life is full of wonderful folly and games - climbing being one of them - but when you have youngsters going around soloing and comparing it to a warriors' mentality, well, it just seems to be a step past folly, and worth questioning for the sake of the youngster.

clmbnski - apologies if you're not a youngster.

arno ilgner - apologies for not having read your book, which I'm sure must expand on the definition of a warrior. I don't believe I have equated being a warrior with being egotistical.


rufusandcompany


Oct 10, 2005, 12:03 AM
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In reply to:
Soloers are dumb AND egotistical. The above post proves it.

Ego, warriors, nor dumbness have anything to do with my message. Your statement portrays an abject ignorance. It is hard to believe that any conscious person wouldn't understand what I said.

Your statement also proves that you know very little about people who solo, nor anything about their character and motivations. The fact that you nor anyone else has bothered to ask a soloist about his or her motivations tells me that you would rather maintain your own fantasies about soloists as self-destructive, egocentric lunatics with a death wish.

Far be it for me to shatter your exotic misconception, although I cannot, in good conscience, sit back and hold my tongue while neophytes make dangerous statements like athabasca's.

In reply to:
I guess I'm just bothered by this "warrior" business. A warrior is described in websters' as a fighting man. I guess someone soloing could be thought of as a fighting man, but that makes it seem silly to me. Sure, life is full of wonderful folly and games - climbing being one of them - but when you have youngsters going around soloing and comparing it to a warriors' mentality, well, it just seems to be a step past folly, and worth questioning for the sake of the youngster.

Your reference to me as egotistical and dumb seems nothing short of ironic, in light of the above statement, which appears to agree with the point of my last post. Which is it? My post is dumb and egocentric or you agree with my post?


athabasca


Oct 10, 2005, 12:50 AM
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I just got back from yet a more time spent out in the mountains then on this mountaines and for all this winning OH MY GOD GET A GRIP AND SUCK IT UP and just climb for the love of it what ever you are in to. just fished off one of the big ones in Canada mount Robson which is 12,972 feet vie the north face[ the Kain face] but hay from what Mr know it all is saying don't listen to anyone if that is it how did any of us learn how to climb I learned off of guides oh is that why I became a mountain guide? ya I did not post much as i am in the hills a lot sorry.
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keep on climbing and fellow your heart


rufusandcompany


Oct 10, 2005, 1:37 AM
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I just got back from yet a more time spent out in the mountains then on this mountaines and for all this winning OH MY GOD GET A GRIP AND SUCK IT UP and just climb for the love of it what ever you are in to. just fished off one of the big ones in Canada mount Robson which is 12,972 feet vie the north face[ the Kain face] but hay from what Mr know it all is saying don't listen to anyone if that is it how did any of us learn how to climb I learned off of guides oh is that why I became a mountain guide? ya I did not post much as i am in the hills a lot sorry.
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keep on climbing and fellow your heart

Are you bragging about your mountain exploits or is this diatribe an attempt at justifying your irresponsible statement about soloing? The statement is all the more irresponsible if you are a guide, which would be unfortunate, considering the arrogance and belligerence of the statements above.

I'm sorry if my criticism bruised your ego. Get over it. We all should be called on statements that might have a hazardous effect on others. As a guide, you should know and understand this.

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