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climbsomething
Oct 6, 2005, 9:05 PM
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In reply to: Anne Skidmore is another one I found via google, and Barbara Rowell was also an excellent photographer. Any others? Websites? What about some of the women of this site?
I take photos of friends, boyfriends, friends of friends, friends of boyfriends. That's just my climbing circle.
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opheliaascending
Oct 6, 2005, 11:07 PM
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Where's your link?
My sister in law is getting into climbing photography. As such, my husband and myself are her main models. I would love it if she got a great shot of me leading 5.9 (cuz that's pushing my limit!) with great cleavage (cuz that would mean I have some!)
I think that sex appeal can be power. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the power is not abused and all acknowledge openly that it's being used.
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opheliaascending
Oct 6, 2005, 11:09 PM
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Where's your link?
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climbsomething
Oct 7, 2005, 12:42 AM
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There's a little icon at the bottom of my every post with a house and a www. Click there, or just the same, HERE.
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blonde_loves_bolts
Oct 7, 2005, 7:06 PM
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Awesome website, Hillary.
:)
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mother_sheep
Oct 7, 2005, 8:27 PM
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No doubt Hillary! I haven't checked your site since you changed it. Your pictures look great!
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htotsu
Oct 9, 2005, 2:48 AM
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In reply to: Bob...What did your gratuitious swipe at Clausti do to empower any of the ladies here in the Ladies Room? How does gaving two male admins calling the women in the Ladies Room drama queens creates a comfortable environment for sharing experineces? |
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bobd1953
Oct 9, 2005, 3:09 AM
Post #83 of 93
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In reply to: iamthewallress wrote: Bob...What did your gratuitious swipe at Clausti do to empower any of the ladies here in the Ladies Room? How does gaving two male admins calling the women in the Ladies Room drama queens creates a comfortable environment for sharing experineces? I wondered the same thing when I read your post, and clearly I was not alone. Bob, I see that you have replied a few times since this was posted, yet you have not yet addressed this quite valid question. Some of us are still waiting for your answer on this one.
Yes I have... via -e-mail. You can do the same.
Poster-1 calls someone a F-ing C@@t and Poster-2 calls Poster-1 egocentric and then Poster-1 thinks that's terrible and should not be allowed.
Yes, drama queens.
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htotsu
Oct 9, 2005, 4:22 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Why is it that clausti's personal attack was so off limits, but Phil's and yours are okeedokee as is aimeerose's defamation of two women who aren't even posting? Use of language. Also not a personal attack. Can you see that? Drama queens...
Also, your little jab at clausti, whether or not you consider it to be a technically "personal attack", was most assuredly a cheap one. Little yes, but cheap and petty. As a moderator, like it or not, you are held to a higher standard. It's pretty sad to see that sort of crap coming from a mod. It's lovely that you know how to copy and paste guidelines, really. But now maybe you should go and read them again, and consider whether your posts are helping.
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bobd1953
Oct 9, 2005, 3:30 PM
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In reply to: But now maybe you should go and read them again, and consider whether your posts are helping.
Read them again, all 1,800, yes most of them do help. :D Am I perfect...far from it. Like I said before...you can e-mail me with any other questions you may have.
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happiegrrrl
Oct 9, 2005, 7:19 PM
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In reply to: As a moderator, like it or not, you are held to a higher standard. It's pretty sad to see that sort of crap coming from a mod.
And there, exactly right within those words, is where your thinking, albeit logical, is flawed......
While in most situations, a company offering a product attempts to guide its representatives in their duties and the way they interface with the consumer, this site, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to do so. The mods are just people, like you and I, with personality quirks, misbehaviors, attitudes and preconceived notions.
I have always thought it a little strange that (some of) the mods here didn't seem to exercise a bit of self-restraint. But it is the way it is. Perhaps if they had a "mod" username and were also allowed one other, where they could vent whatever they had pent within, it might help in that regard. But they're supposedly stuck being themsleves, unless they break the TOS and go under an alias.
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deserteaglle
Oct 10, 2005, 6:13 PM
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Back to the original issue, I think that if there is any real problem, it is that there are not enough male sex symbols. Sure there are rock stars and actors, but I mean shots of guys wearing skimpy outfits in magazines. Essentially the male version of the hot chicks doing easy climbs thing.
When I started dating, I found that girls who were the sweet, "regular" types of chicks, that I grew up to think all women were( I was even raised by my mother and sister and still thought this), are actually too tame, and actually boring to me. So the girls I ended up dating were a little more different, but not even weird, there are actually alot of women just like them. They were very candid and made comments like Clausti's "i've slept with men 8-12 years older than me, does that make me a golddigging slut? and i've flirted with photographers, too". At first I was shocked to find out that my girlfriends were turned on by commercials with guys without shirts on and stuff like that. But then,... I pulled my head out of my ass, and I realized that there would be no heterosexual relationships if women were not weird enough to find us hairy, sometimes smelly, vulgar, proud, and clueless men attractive.
Really we would not be able to blame you if more of you were lesbians.
The point is that the lack of advertising devoted to enticing the heterosexual female is the cause of the whole problem. Maybe more women should be more like Clausti (god wouldn't that be awesome) and be open, even if it does intialy intimidate men. They'll get used to it, and women will also have to get used to asking out guys they think are hot more often.
I'm not sure if I got my point across, it sounded really good in my head. But that's what I got, so it'll have to do. Lata.
:cry: (Me wishing that I could be a sex symbol, and that more women found hairy guys with hairy backs attractive.)
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blonde_loves_bolts
Oct 10, 2005, 11:32 PM
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I don't think the societal solution to the consequences of objectifying women will happen as a result of [further] objectifying men. The issue has far deeper roots and is bound up in ways that make it impossible to discuss without unconsciously stipulating to the terms of the debate before the debate even begins. There was an insightful video called "Killing Us Softly 3" where the speaker presents an example of a man in an advertisement who is wearing very little and is clearly presented as an object. This particular ad was published soon after the Calvin Klein ad 'scandal,' and the men who pushed this ad said that it was simply equating a man to a historically female tradition. The speaker countered that it was not the same, unless the ad of the man had carried with it several sentences of subtle, degrading statements that imply that the solution to his inferiority can be found through purchasing the advertised product. Anyway, like I've said, I think far more subconscious, antiquated 'value systems' are a much bigger setback for women than the photos of the women climbing that prompted this OP. And in case you're still awake after reading this far, according to VH1 heterosexual women apparently want more movies like "Brokeback Mountain" than anything... :roll:
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deserteaglle
Oct 11, 2005, 2:19 PM
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Blonde who loves bolts, I think the biggest problems with your statements is that they are 1) based off of the news about a Calvin Klein commercial, and 2) your other information is coming from VH1. I'm sure that you are very intelligent,and smarter than alot of people out there, but I have a real problem with this pop psychology stuff, and it's often ridiculously understudied solutions and answers to much more complicated problems. I was not at all saying that men need to be objectified the way that women have been, but that we should not pretend like heterosexual women are not attracted to men. You CAN be attracted to somebodies physical traits without turning them into only mindless objects. I think alot of mental things can be inferenced by a persons appearance, the way they stand, walk, facial expression; broken down further into: appearance of alertness, sluggishness, set of jaw, angle of their chin, blah, blah, blah. The list goes on, and all of these things, while not as valuable as a three hour discourse with the person, can tell you quite abit about their personality. This pop psychology stuff says to be more politicaly correct and tell people they are completely equal to everybody else. For example, an obese woman can be just as strong, willful, and powerful as any other woman, and we men should not close them out as a possible mate just because they are overweight(this could go either way, but because I am a man, and have never been attracted to another I'll have to speak of what I know). However, I hold that, because obesity is dangerous to your health, I have never met nor heard of anybody that was happy and proud to be obese, and because you can always lose weight(and for your info. I was 5'6 and weighed 212 lbs. in the 7th grade and weigh 20 lbs. less at 6 feet tall now), there must be weakness in the mind, because they know of all of the dangers, their unattractiveness to most of the opposite sex, their desire to be wanted, and they still refuse to lose weight. Of course there are a few situations in which weight loss is impossible, or so I'm told, but for the most part, obesity is a sign of mental weakness.
Recap: Men don't have to be objectified to be sex symbols, nor do women, pop psychology is mostly ridiculous rabble, and I don't mean any insult to Blonde, who is obviously smart(refer to her previous posts), and who is obviously strong(she's a friggin' rockclimber, duh). :lol: Everybody have a nice day.
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blonde_loves_bolts
Oct 12, 2005, 2:23 PM
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deserteaglle,
I appreciate the nod and the compliments. I think it would be absurd to say that the summation of my argument is that heterosexual women aren't attracted to men, and that all of us are mere controllable end products for a larger force that we have no ability to recognize, change, or stop. I have to disagree with some of your assertions; cultural ('pop') psychology has everything to do with every aspect of the entertainment and advertising industries. Also, I cited one source in my post that is an internationally acclaimed documentary on the subject, in addition to my life experience as a woman; the VH1 'source' was more of a joke than anything. My argument is that cultural tides are created and changed through mass circulated viewpoints and values, and those that are most easily embraced are usually are just reinforcements to our own inclinations based on established value systems; however, I am not insinuating that desire on an individual level (male to female, female to male, female to female or male to male) automatically turns the desired subject into a mindless object. It's an exponentially larger scale. True desire shouldn't even be about subjugation; it should be mutual. My argument is that the very advertising that we as a culture "don't pay attention to" is the advertising that misrepresents its ad subject(s) as mindless or controllable or in power depending on the product, the audience, and the nature of the industry. I am not sure why you believe that cultural psychology is an understudied pseudoscience (if I'm paraphrasing accurately), but I think some of what you take issue with in my post isn't anywhere near the root of the real problem I'm trying to get at.
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unabonger
Oct 12, 2005, 3:07 PM
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In reply to: and the men who pushed this ad said that it was simply equating a man to a historically female tradition. The speaker countered that it was not the same, unless the ad of the man had carried with it several sentences of subtle, degrading statements that imply that the solution to his inferiority can be found through purchasing the advertised product.
Men of course do face some such sentences, not geared toward a comparison with women, but rather toward material wealth, power, and virility. The psychological triggers that marketers use to propel us might be sometimes different for men and women but they are equally insidious and unhealthy. They use tools of envy, scarcity, and social acceptance to get you to believe their version of reality and thus buy their repair for your faults.
And in today's world marketing isn't only insidious, it is pervasive. I bet you are looking at more than one advertisment right this second...
UB
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wes_allen
Oct 13, 2005, 3:07 AM
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Climbsomething, very nice site, and I have seen a couple of your photos on the front page the last couple days. Very cool.
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rockfax
Oct 17, 2005, 4:51 PM
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However you want to frame it boys outnumber girls in climbing by a wide margin and advertisers know that girl flesh sells to boys, and although some of the top climbers in the world are women (Beth Rodden and Josune Bereziartu to name just two)..............the advertisments that portray women as sex objects rather than individuals will never stop.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=114
Mick
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